ESI Q and A Forums Home
 Search       Members   Calendar   Help   Home 
Search by username
Not logged in - Login | Register 

Trouble leading
 Moderated by: DrDeb  
 New Topic   Reply   Print 
AuthorPost
Anam Cara
Member
 

Joined: Mon Sep 6th, 2010
Location:  
Posts: 2
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Sep 12th, 2010 06:08 am
 Quote  Reply 
Hello,

I'm a new here and new to Dr. Deb's approach to horsemanship. I've just begun reading The Birdie Book and listening to the manners audio CD. I look forward to learning much and appreciate every bit of what I found thus far.

Here's my immediate situation that I would appreciate feedback on: When my mare is on the 40+ acre pasture with the herd, I have trouble leading her in. She will plant her feet and refuse to move. I usually drive her forward by swinging the end of the lead rope, sometimes just behind me, sometimes to the point of slapping her on the butt. She will come forward with that but at times rushes forward past me or runs circles around me. I have tried approach and retreat, leading to the side to get unstuck, but her response is to plant in one spot. Once we get about half way in she usually leads fine. The gated area that keeps the horses closer to the barn for the evening used to frighten her, even going back to the herd, and maybe still does. I have guided and supported her through it with approach and retreat often. She used to sigh and blow and lick and chew; now she is more comfortable when we go through. I always lead her back to the herd.

When she is on the smaller pasture, or brought into the area closer to the barn for the evening, she will often come in at liberty.

I do not ride her on trail anymore. I do not feel I have the leadership I need to be safe.

Thank you,
Pat

Last edited on Sun Sep 12th, 2010 06:10 am by Anam Cara

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3321
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Sep 12th, 2010 08:47 am
 Quote  Reply 
Dear Pat: Welcome to the Forum. You will find some pretty good help here, I expect.

This reply is not only for you, but also for all the many people who read here and who have already been reading and studying the Birdie Book for some time. Since you've just started on these materials, Pat, I don't expect all the lights to have dawned quite yet, but those who have been here longer will recognize in your description a near-perfect example of "Birdie stuck to the herd".

This is shown not just because your mare is reluctant to move away from the herd, but very especially by your report that "....after we're about halfway in she leads fine".

This tells us exactly the current length of your mare's Thread. As you read further in the Birdie Book, you will find out, Pat, that each horse's Birdie knows how to come back to the right body (I mean, after all a whole herd's Birdies COULD all be flying around and who is to say that the Birdie from the sorrel horse wouldn't fly back to the bay?) -- so how each Birdie always gets back to the right body is because when it flies out, it is tied back to its own body by the Thread. The Thread can be somewhat elastic; you can stretch it. But past a certain point, it ceases to be elastic, and then it is in danger of breaking. If the human does not know about this, and continues to try to tug, drive, or force the horse away from where its Birdie is, the human will hurt the horse, and may get hurt themselves.  In other words, what the whole Birdie/Thread metaphor is trying to teach you, Pat, is this:

1. You must perceive where the horse's Birdie is. His Birdie equals his desires. Ray Hunt used to say: "Watch their mind". Harry Whitney simply refers to the Birdie as the horse's brain, and often says, "where is his brain" meaning "where does the horse most want to be".

2. You must never, ever drive, drag, or force the horse's body away from where its Birdie is. The one and only way that a horse can experience peacefulness on the inside and manifest calmness on the outside is if its body and its Birdie are together.

3. You must learn to call and direct the horse's Birdie, because no horse can be controlled by merely physical means. Deep control means control of the Birdie. To begin with, you have to mean more to the horse than its herdmates. Our elderly teacher used to say, "You want to get it to where the horse would rather be with you than anywhere else. He would rather be with YOU."

So you see, Pat, the problem you are having is not, in actual fact, that your horse won't readily come in from the pasture. The real problem is that you don't mean that much to her; she doesn't think that it's important to pay attention to you and obey.

Luckily for you, it also sounds to me as if you own a horse that wants to be polite. She does not want to hurt you, or she would already have done so in this type of situation. There are some horses that would hurt the person. This is because, when you get out to the end of their Thread, to where it is stretched so far that it can't any longer be elastic, then, you must understand, what the horse feels is that if he takes one single step further and breaks his Thread, then he will die. In other words, by driving, dragging, or forcing a horse's body away from its Birdie, you are threatening the horse's survival in a very serious way. This is why horses sometimes react violently or viciously, and people don't understand it; they can't understand why the horse would whirl and kick them. But we do understand, because while it is true that God gave people ten (or more) Commandments, he only gave animals one: and that one is: "You must survive".

What the Birdie Book most valuably teaches is for the person not to put the horse into this kind of a bind. It teaches you HOW not to make this mistake.

Now, this leaves you with but one alternative: you have to learn how to call the horse's Birdie. There are all kinds of ways I bet you can think of to do this. What would happen, for example, do you think, if, after you went out to the pasture and haltered your mare up, instead of trying to walk to the barn, you forgot all about your so-called objective, and instead turned around and led her toward the herd? Actually lead her closer to the herd. Would she be hard to lead then? (We already know the answer to this, do we not? But then again, I do actually want you to try it).

And then....what do you think would occur if, after leading her right through the herd -- pick a wide spot so that other horses won't kick at you or her -- but you cut right through the herd, and then you come out the back side and then turn one way or the other and lead her in a circle around the herd. What would happen if you circled the herd -- this would be an offer from you to actually give the horse what the horse wants, a way for you to show her that you KNOW what she wants and that you appreciate it and sympathize with it like a friend would. But at the same time, what if, while you were leading her, you kept noticing where she was LOOKING, and every time she looked anywhere but toward you, you gave her a little bump on the nose, a tug with the halter rope that says, "hey -- you should be looking at me".

And then....if you got her out a little ways away from the group, presuming they're pretty much ignoring you -- so you get her out a little ways away from them, and it might be on the back side and it might be to one side or the other, but you get her turned so her butt is facing the herd. And then when it is, you go to asking her to back, one step at a time. You do this so she really has to focus on it -- what you're looking for is for her to alternate between kind of looking down at her own feet and glancing at you, as if to ask for direction.

And then after she has backed and done a good job of really focusing on the job, see what happens when you go to lead her forward again. See if she doesn't stick to you a little better.

Now you can continue right around the herd until you get to the side nearer the barn, and then you take an oblique angle -- you don't go right toward the barn, but kind of zig once and then after four or five steps, you zag. And the moment she gets stuck (if she does get stuck), then just then it would all of a sudden be necessary for her to do a bit of untracking. So you get in there and ask that inside hind leg to step under the body shadow. And you do this in a friendly way but it's also kind of businesslike, and again, you get her to really focus on the job, so she alternates between paying attention to her body and looking to you for direction. And once she's untracked let's say, half of one circle, which would be three or four steps, AND SHE IS LOOKING AT YOU, then you tell her in a friendly tone of voice, "come on, let's go", and you step toward the barn, again on a zig or a zag, but you are getting farther from the herd.

And in this manner, whenever you need to either ask her to back one step at a time for three or four steps, or else to untrack for three or four steps -- every time she STOPS LOOKING AT YOU, then you ask for one of these two things which will cause her to LOOK AT YOU.

Because, Pat, whatever a horse is looking at is what it is thinking about. And so long as your mare is looking AT YOU, even when you are leading toward the barn, she will come along just fine. But if you let her eyes -- and with them her thoughts -- go back to the herd, it will be 'so long Charlie'.

Now, if you have any ability as a horse trainer, from this it will soon occur to you that this approach also has applicability in many other situations. The primary mark or sign that a given person will be able to be an effective horse trainer, is their ability to first grasp the principle of a lesson such as this one, and then to creatively and appropriately adapt it to whatever situation they may find themselves in with their horse.

Notice how getting your mind off your so-called objective allows your mind, your actions, and your perceptions much more flexibility.

Please do feel free to write in again and let us know how things are going, once you have tried these suggestions. -- Dr. Deb

Anam Cara
Member
 

Joined: Mon Sep 6th, 2010
Location:  
Posts: 2
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Sep 12th, 2010 08:37 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Dear Dr. Deb,

Thank you for the speedy reply, I really wasn't expecting to hear from you so soon!

I have done what you suggested in the past; abandoned the objective to get to the barn, lead her in the direction of the herd, kept both eyes on me, watched where her attention is. She keeps a watchful eye on the barn area, and certain members of the herd.

Today I did the things you suggested along with the above.

I began by heading toward the gelding she had an eye on, he was directly behind us, in the opposite direction of the barn. She would not move toward him, but he came to us. Interesting that she is a sorrel and he a bay.

It did not matter what direction I tried to lead in her in. She stayed in her self determined spot. I backed her, one step at a time, or untracked her, one step at a time if her attention wavered from me. I would not let her graze as she seemed determined to do. I began to have some success moving her feet forward if it was off to the side. I picked up a tall weed and put a length of clear plastic and a piece of orange twine on the end of it and got her attention with that for a little while. It was quite remarkable because I have never before seen those kinds of things that far out in the pasture. It was then she perked up a little more and I was able to get movement from one group of the herd and then over to the other. Oh, you see the herd gravitated toward the barn as we were working this out. I tried to take her around the herd and through different parts of it but the best movement came from walking between the two groups.

She hooked on 2 other horses being led in and it was much easier from that point.

This process took an hour and a half, at least. I don't mind the time that it took, but what bothers me is just how flat out, loud and clear she let me know she has little regard for me.

Time to let this all settle.

Thank you, thank you, for your support and guidance.

Pat




DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3321
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Sep 12th, 2010 09:43 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Pat, you can use a friend who might go out and lead the other horses in -- temporarily -- but you know and I know and we all know, it's a crutch. OF COURSE your mare hooks on to other horses -- she obviously feels she can't depend upon YOU.

What you are telling me is that either:

(1) You aren't able to keep yourself focused on the task all the time, all the necessary time, that means every single second. If this is the case, then your mare is "escaping" whenever she sees YOUR attention waver.

(2) You aren't brave enough or mature enough to not care whether your mare loves you or not. You have to not care. When you don't care whether she loves you, then you will be able to muster enough firmness. If you use too little firmness, then, even though the mare knows what you want, she won't believe in you. When you don't care whether she loves you, you will find that then, and ONLY then, she starts loving you.

(3) You just aren't that familiar with horses, so that everything is rather clumsy. You might really be trying to be there for her, but just can't get it done through inexperience, lack of practice, and the concomitant clumsiness. If this is the case, the best suggestion I can give you is that you drop everything and get yourself to the next Harry Whitney or Buck Brannaman or Tom Curtin clinic. Or Ray Berta. Or Melanie Smith. But go.

And actually, that's what I'd tell you no matter what the case is, which of course I can't absolutely tell from this end of the Internet. I think you  are kind of telling me, "I feel that I need coaching," so of course, Pat, then go get some.

I repeat again, you are LUCKY that your mare has no mind to hurt you. Many a horse, when dragged away from the herd, will wait for a moment of inattention on the handler's part, and then whirl, pull away hard, and kick at the person on their way out. This is common and very dangerous. So you go get the "live" help you need, and get this problem solved before it gets any worse.

I mean it. Figure out what clinician you want to visit with, go to their website, get their schedule, figure out what town you want to meet them in, and go buy the ticket. -- Dr. Deb

equivic
Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 11th, 2010
Location:  
Posts: 12
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Sep 13th, 2010 04:25 am
 Quote  Reply 
Hello Pat & Dr. Deb. I'm new to your forum & have spent the last few weeks reading through many invaluable posts. I've jumped on this one because it is the most relevant one to me at the moment. I do have the birdie book which Halleluah at last has given me a direction & understanding. I've had to remove a history of pony club,quackery & guruism from my thinking to clearly follow the birdie process. Very difficult as I'm of ... ahem.... mature years. Anyway, I had exactly the same with leading & after keeping the concentration up on timing etc. the results were as Dr. Deb explains. Thank you so much. I have a friend who is a follower of a particular guru & had a nearly disastrous incident recently. She was riding her gelding on the beach whilst leading her young gelding. She unclipped the youngster so he could gallop along happily but her mount wanted to join in the fun to which she held him back. Well he bucked & spun & everything else. So after getting off him,retrieved her youngster, then remounted for the ride home. On arriving & untacking her mount, he swung around in lightning speed & bit her face. She just moved enough to avoid having her nose bitten off. She immediately arranged for him to be gotten rid of. Thankfully an experienced rider stepped in to give all a bit of breathing space by having him at her place. She's now had all & sundry passing advice but I've not heard a hint of anything on leading him & understanding his mental needs. It's her birthday soon & guess what I'm sending as a present? But the main point of my posting is, you mention the dangers. Well here was one as proof of how important you're attention must be.

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3321
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Sep 13th, 2010 09:26 am
 Quote  Reply 
Dear Equivic: Yours is a good cautionary tale. The most interesting part, however, I think is that after the horse bit his owner, at that point her brain almost totally shut off, or you could say it "narrowed down" like a dark tunnel, or became very inflexible -- so that the only one thought she could have was "get rid of him" or "have him killed".

What this really belies is two things:

(1) The woman believes that the animal owes her something -- obedience or loyalty or love, or to act like an automobile -- put the key in, take the expected behavior out.

(2) When this does not happen -- when the horse does not give what it "owes", then the owner wants the satisfaction of revenge.

I see quite a bit of this. The owner typically sets it up this way: first, they have a horse that they do not know how to teach. There is something that the animal does, or fails to do, that really it would be better if it did know. And then, when it doesn't do what it is "supposed" to, the owner goes looking for an expert -- some trainer -- who would be willing to beat the horse up FOR them, because they are not brave enough or expert enough to do it themselves!

I often ask this type of person, when they come to me wanting this type of "help", whether they have a child who is learning to play piano, or if they were given piano lessons as children. When they made a mistake in playing a scale, did the piano teacher hit them? On their first lesson, didn't the teacher show them where the scales lie on the piano? Or rather, was the child expected to walk up to the piano with no instruction at all, and be able to play an etude note for note from start to finish?

For example, a woman recently asked me about how to get her horse started on having its sheath cleaned, because he had a 'bean' that was bending the glans down and deflecting his stream backwards. I told her that to remove the bean, if it was large, would be very painful to the horse, so that if she wanted it removed she should have the vet come out and sedate the animal. Normally when sedated, the horse will relax so much that the penis extends, and then, when his reflexes are also dulled and slowed by the drugs, it is usually a simple matter to remove the bean. But what actually occurred instead was that, even though the vet did come out and drug the horse -- two full doses -- it would not permit anyone to touch him in the flank area, and despite the drugs kicked violently and dangerously.

I am sorry to report that this particular vet responded by kicking the horse hard in the belly. That did get the horse to stand for the procedure, but it also removed any desire that I personally might ever have had to call that vet for services. But I digress. The point of this is to say that, by the way the woman who owns the horse told me the story -- by which I mean the evident relish, the glowing cheeks, the knowing smile, the glitter in her eyes -- this was the set-up and this was exactly the "payoff" she had actually been hoping for. She wanted revenge, and was happy and glad that the horse got kicked in the belly -- quite proud of the fact, she felt justified that she had "adequately disciplined him".

Of course, she was angry when I spoke to her about the need to get the horse broke around the hindquarters; because a horse who has a problem being touched in the flank area and is motivated to vigorously defend himself even when heavily drugged certainly also has a problem being touched in the flank area when NOT drugged. But because who "needs" to get this done, or learn how to do it, is the owner herself, it is not at all of interest, indeed it is threatening, because it would involve changing herself, a total inner revolution -- the complete elimination of the desire to show how 'powerful' she is, or to take revenge -- replacing that with a commitment to becoming an effective teacher. -- Dr. Deb

Ride A Grey Horse
Member
 

Joined: Tue Feb 9th, 2010
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 53
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Oct 18th, 2010 02:07 am
 Quote  Reply 
Dear Dr.Deb and friends,

This thread has had a huge influence on me. The two things I keep coming back to are in Dr.Deb's first post, giving Pat a practical picture of calling the horse's birdie:

<<What would happen if you circled the herd -- this would be an offer from you to actually give the horse what the horse wants, a way for you to show her that you KNOW what she wants and that you appreciate it and sympathize with it like a friend would. But at the same time, what if, while you were leading her, you kept noticing where she was LOOKING, and every time she looked anywhere but toward you, you gave her a little bump on the nose, a tug with the halter rope that says, "hey -- you should be looking at me">>

and

<<And the moment she gets stuck... then just then it would all of a sudden be necessary for her to do a bit of untracking. So you get in there and ask that inside hind leg to step under the body shadow. And you do this in a friendly way but it's also kind of businesslike>>

For me, the lightning flash here is about authority.  That I have the right to get and keep the horse's attention - doing what it takes, "in a friendly way but it's also kind of businesslike."  I guess it's amazing that someone could be around horses for years, could cluelessly take on riding horses for other people, etc., without really believing in the right to keep the horse's attention - and not get killed.  They do say God protects fools and drunkards.  In the last few weeks I've just taken on this authority, and both my horse and his pasture-companion are visibly happy.  They keep letting out sighs of peace.

After reading the Birdie Book, amazing threads here, and recently some of the Inner Horseman back issues - after hearing the message that I have this right and responsibility, and nodding in agreement without really picturing it  - somehow things shifted for me, to where I own this when I'm out there with the horses, and it changes everything.  What also seems directly related is that today in riding, I thought of a post of Dr.Deb's (sorry I don't remember from which thread) that said to actually take a quiet hold of the horse's tongue, rather than riding with lax hands.  This was phenomenal, and again my horse seemed appreciative.

Thank you Dr.Deb, and all the others on this great Forum, for helping me become more, well, this is embarrassing but I think the word is conscious.

Cynthia




DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3321
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Oct 18th, 2010 05:39 am
 Quote  Reply 
Dear Cynthia and everyone -- yes, indeed, the word is 'conscious'. I have said many times here that, if people insist on having an adjective attached to the word 'horsemanship', then that adjective should certainly not be 'natural' but instead should be 'conscious'. We want to practice conscious horsemanship; we want the horsemanship that we practice to be consciously practiced, that is to say, to be practiced with awareness of everything that is going on.

I have recently told a story in the 'riding one step at a time' thread about how there is a parallel between the daily practice of riding one step at a time, in other words, consciously choosing to do this and not blurring. The parallel is to the martial arts, and what I observed was that the martial artist who deliberately practices breaking his moves down into 'steps', and moving as slowly as possible through each of those steps so that every part of each step is consciously felt, has this wierd thing happen to him: time slows down. When you look at it from 'inside', it seems to you, the practitioner, that time is moving very slowly, so that you have time to make all the moves you need to make; but when you look at it from the outside, it looks as if the practitioner has lightning-fast 'moves' and reflexes.

Now what I want to relate is that this applies in all areas of life. Three days ago I was in a very dangerous car accident and came within an inch of being killed. So God not only loves a drunk and a fool, but I want to tell you He also loves the person who is prepared, because I survived this accident, as I have also survived others before, by driving through it.

I was going north on the 2-lane highway up to the barn, at a point where it passes through a lefthand curve before crossing the Tuolumne River. Traffic in my lane was moving 55 or a little less, but in the southbound lane at least 10 mph faster. Some guy pulling a 2-axle ball hitch steel horse trailer was coming south through the same curve, just after the bridge, when the trailer came off the hitch and came hurtling like a rocket across the road straight at me.

The road in that place has only about 2 ft. of shoulder to the right and then drops off very steeply to the creek. Halfway down there is a row of substantial trees. I saw the trailer coming and instantly swerved to the right, putting my two righthand wheels a few feet down the slope but holding the left front wheel on the pavement. This kept me from going down the cliff and hitting the trees, and it also dodged a head-on impact, which would certainly have killed me as I was driving my little '89 Honda Civic that sat the road and handled like a racecar but had no air bags at all.

Unfortunately the trailer, being a four-horse and pretty long, was slewing around, so that although the front end missed me, the tail end of it sideswiped me starting about six inches behind my elbow and then slammed me very hard in my left rear quarter. The impact was so great that it actually accellerated my car, despite the fact that we were going in opposite directions, and it slapped me -- like a man playing tetherball -- into a 360-degree spin, which took me in an arc the full width of both lanes. Happily there was no southbound traffic, or else they had already stopped; I am not sure about that, because I couldn't see much while going around, and I was busy just focusing on trying to steer out of the spin.

I heard my left rear tire explode when I was hit, and afterwards I saw the aluminum wheel in little arc-shaped pieces spread out all over the road; but the old Honda was a wonderfully-made car, so that the steering continued to work, the brakes worked, and I wound up in my own lane facing east, with only my two front tires off the right side of the road, headed down the embankment but not far.

Immediately the guy who had been just in front of me stopped, and helped to stop all the traffic, and he ran over and helped me get my driver's side door open which was not damaged but jammed into the dirt since the Honda, having lost the left rear wheel, was riding low. So I was able to clamber out, not a single scratch on me, felt just fine at the time, though I'm somewhat stiff in the neck and left arm today.

Once I was out, then we noticed what else had happened after the trailer hit me. If it had entirely missed me, I think it would have hit nothing else, and would just have crossed the road on its oblique trajectory and pitched down the embankment. However, caroming off my car changed its trajectory as well as mine, like two billard balls colliding, and caused it to head directly south -- square down the center of the northbound lane. The lady behind me did not have much chance to avoid an impact, and she never even hit the brakes. The trailer slammed into her head-on, going at least 55 mph, and she was going 55 also, so it was a tremendous crash.

However -- very lucky for her -- she was driving a Beamer. The impact literally exploded the whole front end of her car, right back to the firewall; where the engine must have gone, I never even saw. Her oil and coolant ruptured all over the road. But the dashboard in her car wasn't even bent! So she came out of it with a broken wrist, probably a broken left leg, and pretty shook up, but the airbag saved her from internal injuries apparently. Now there is an endorsement for BMW engineering if
you could ever have one!

The guy whose rig came apart realized it within a quarter-mile and turned back as soon as he could -- he's going to get fined bigtime let me tell you, too, because he had no brakes on that trailer and no safety chains -- it was an old hulk that had been
converted to utility use and was, luckily, empty at the time of the wreck. It was still plenty heavy enough though!


So there are several morals to this story. The first one is -- if you're in the habit of living in a blur, then you better be driving a BMW. The second one is -- if you don't have the dough to afford a Beamer (I don't), then you had better develop the habit of awareness and consciousness, and that starts with putting down the cell phone, the beer can, the iPod, the Blackberry, and the Bluetooth. Because otherwise, with cars and driving just as with horses and riding, you'll be riding on luck, and luck is not the god I believe in.

And the third moral is -- remember to be grateful every morning. Wake up telling whatever God you do believe in how grateful you are to still be breathing the sweet free air, instead of having to breathe it through six feet of plastic tubing. Because EVERY accident is a "freak accident", and only those with the ability to see it coming in time will have any chance of avoiding harm.

When the film interviewer asked Ray Hunt what he thought of Tom when he first met him, Ray said: "Waal, I'd never met a man who knew what a horse might do before he done what he did." And Tom used to say: "Always remember to leave at least one inch between the tip of the horse's hoof and your head."

Cheers -- Dr. Deb

 

 

rifruffian
Member
 

Joined: Mon Mar 17th, 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 69
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Oct 18th, 2010 08:35 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Despite all circumstances....it's a good-news post.

kuuinoa
Member
 

Joined: Wed Mar 21st, 2007
Location: Keaau, Hawaii USA
Posts: 26
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Oct 18th, 2010 09:54 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Dr. Deb:

Good Grief!  What a good thing you are a heads up lady!  I'm giving thanks for your safe delivery and that of everyone who happened to be on the highway right then.  I'm also making a mental note to be more aware of everything sharing my present moment and making that present moment as large as I can to give me a heads up.

My condolences on your '89 Honda Civic.  They were really great, solidly built cars.

K.

Ride A Grey Horse
Member
 

Joined: Tue Feb 9th, 2010
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 53
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Oct 18th, 2010 10:21 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Dr.Deb, well done you, and thank God. Ray Hunt's remark about T.D. having such awareness he could see what a horse is about to do now, and the charming piece of advice from T.D. himself - those are great comments on your escape.  Take care of your neck and your arm Dr.Deb.  I always think warmth is healing, but maybe other members who know more will say ice.  Anyway keep being well.  God bless you,
Cynthia

Sam from another computer
Guest
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Oct 19th, 2010 12:20 am
 Quote  Reply 
Hi Dr.Deb,
Phew, Thank goodness you are okay! Indeed a good reminder for us to be grateful for every breath we take and to make the most of what we have. Loved the quotes from Ray and Tom, very apt.
Best Wishes
Judy

Jacquie
Member


Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 158
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Wed Oct 20th, 2010 08:22 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Gosh DD I have not been visiting this site for a while and its quite a shocking post you have placed in this thread, but still you have managed to make me laugh out loud with the final quote from Tom!

You have an unusual approach to educating humans, which is often a difficult one for the humans in your sights to accept; but you are a very unusual person.

Unusual and eccentric. In my view eccentricity is a very good thing as it shows that you are not a follower and  you are a thinker. Your clear and clever analysis of your near death experience shows this very clearly. 

You may be interested to know that when 'longevity' was 'investigated', individuals who lived well beyond 90 and some who were over 100 years old were interviewed and it was found that being a vegetarian, healthy living, fit person, who did not smoke, over indulge in alcohol or partake of excesses in any kind - did not figure highly in the elderly people  who were interviewed!

The only thing that these elderly people did have in common was -

ECCENTRICITY!

It was reported that the more eccentric the people were, the longer they lived - and the healthier they remained in old age! I am not sure how true that all is, but it gives a great excuse for not following the crowd, thinking for yourself and being your own person!


Look forwards to a long life DD!

Philine
Member
 

Joined: Tue Jul 31st, 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada
Posts: 23
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Oct 26th, 2010 11:11 pm
 Quote  Reply 
What a spectacular demonstration of how important being in the moment (aka conscious) can be.  So glad you are OK.

Philine


 Current time is 10:11 pm




Powered by WowBB 1.7 - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez