ESI Q and A Forums Home
 Search       Members   Calendar   Help   Home 
Search by username
Not logged in - Login | Register 

Post Reply
Username: *

Message:

Bold Italic Underline Align Left Center Align Right Ordered List Unordered List Quote Insert Image Insert Link Insert Code Tags  
Attachment:
Allowed extensions: bmp gif jpg jpeg png txt pdf zip

The file size should not exceed 500000 bytes
   

 Preview   Send 


Topic Review
AuthorTopic
Dorothy
Member
 

Joined: Fri Jan 15th, 2010
Location: Bath, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 223
Status:  Offline
Posted: Thu Sep 2nd, 2010 11:17 am
...and after the journey home in the van:

Attachment: S2 web.jpg


CarolineTwoPonies
Member
 

Joined: Sun Mar 15th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 67
Status:  Offline
Posted: Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 07:23 am


et


DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3307
Status:  Offline
Posted: Sun Sep 5th, 2010 08:42 pm
Yes, these are all good examples. I was looking around through my files, but failed to find, a photo I took of a horse many years ago whose 'localized sweat patch' was two palms broad. The patches are always upon the shoulders or neck, so far as I know; I've never seen one on a horse's thigh or the top of the butt.

As to their exact cause, I've been looking around through the literature on that too, and the best I can come up with is a note from Matthew Mackay-Smith in a very old issue of Equus Magazine. Dr. Matthew was asked this in the 'letters to the editor' column and his reply was that it was indeed due to some small dysfunction in the autonomic nervous response which controls sweating as well as sebaceous secretion.

The pattern of the patches is suspiciously reflective of the dermatome pattern. 'Dermatomes' are zones of the skin, which are like invisible zebra stripes, each of which is innervated by peripheral branches coming off from between whichever pair of vertebrae is directly above them. You can see the dermatome pattern if you look it up in Sisson & Grossmann.

Horses who manifest these patches are not ill or off or dysfunctional in any other way, and I think that even if it is due to nerve damage, the damage must be minor. Nor may we automatically assume that such nerve damage is caused by 'pinching', i.e. mis-posturing, or by something like a mis-fitting saddle; it could as readily be due to nutritional deficiency, ingestion of toxic substances, or the action of a virus.

I'll continue to keep my eye out for published research on this subject, and anyone else who comes across anything, do please let us know about it. -- Dr. Deb

CarolineTwoPonies
Member
 

Joined: Sun Mar 15th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 67
Status:  Offline
Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 05:06 am
Thank you very much for you answer. Do you have any suggestions for returning the horse to his previous condition where this was not happening?
If its dermatone would it be then related to the first or second thoracic vertebra based on the position of the spots? I am thinking perhaps I can try a little myofascial release in the event there is nerves restricted? I will see the horse wed and will take more pics.
DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3307
Status:  Offline
Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 05:25 am
Caroline, "dermatome" is not a cause of injury or dysfunction; it is a bodypart. Please take the time to go look up the concept and the very clear diagram presented in Sisson & Grossmann's "Anatomy of the Domestic Animals". You might also follow this up by Googling "dermatome", which will bring up the diagram as for human anatomy.

As to treatment: you can try your modality and see what effect it has. It will be interesting to see whether, by the application of myofascial release or any other technique or therapy, any change is actually created. As I mentioned before: we do not have to assume, and indeed it is probably inadvisable to assume, that this is due to any amount of "pinching" of any nerve; as I said previously, it could just as readily be due to the action of toxins or a virus.

Let us know what occurs after your treatment session. -- Dr. Deb

CarolineTwoPonies
Member
 

Joined: Sun Mar 15th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 67
Status:  Offline
Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 05:44 am
I will and I will share your feedback with the owner. The horses moved to a new location this week so if it was a toxin or a virus linked to the environment would a change of location possibly make a change?

I will read up on dermatone and give you progress reports. Thanks for the reco on book/googling.
Dorothy
Member
 

Joined: Fri Jan 15th, 2010
Location: Bath, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 223
Status:  Offline
Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 06:54 am
Dr Deb, thank you for your thoughts on this.

I have come across one horse in my Chiropractic practice some years ago with a similar sweat patch, though this was over the thoracic paraspinal muscles at about T15 / 16 on one side only, and was directly connected with trauma. This did reduce and finally resolve either with the help of Chiropractic, or in spite of it!

Solo is currently having some acupuncture, so I will let you know if it makes any difference.

Dorothy

CarolineTwoPonies
Member
 

Joined: Sun Mar 15th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 67
Status:  Offline
Posted: Thu Sep 9th, 2010 05:47 am
So the horse today and experimented with a variety of touches. What made a difference was a fairly energetic "waking up" of the whole area, not focusing on the spots themselves. Initially I thought perhaps the heat from my fingers must have been drying them a little but even avoiding them and working around them they dried up quite a bit. I cant imagine this would have made a long lasting difference but I will see him next week and play with it again. Lovely, soft and gentle horse, a joy to touch.
she cuts it tree service beth
Guest
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status:  Offline
Posted: Sun Oct 2nd, 2011 08:09 pm
i have a 8 year old t.b mare that has a   1 1/2  foot long patch ( and growing )down her right hip. very wierd. and i see know as i read here i guess i should not worrie. it is very weird but dose not bother her.  my email is     shecutsit@yahoo.com     if any one has any more info i would appreciate it

sarahmorloff
Member
 

Joined: Sun Oct 2nd, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 77
Status:  Offline
Posted: Sun Oct 2nd, 2011 09:25 pm
Hello, this was always very interesting to me... I had a 4 yr. old TB mare that did this on her hips (both sides perfectly symmetrical) also, on her shoulders... I of course did hours of research but couldn't find anything that seemed to fit the description... at the time I wrote it off as her being "nervous" (even though she didn't seem like it)...

I do body work now and work a lot with mineral imbalances... most of the horses I see with these unusual sweat marks I consider on toxic overload... of course that is the best description I have and a toxin test would confirm.  But, regardless, it seems to mysteriously disappear when the minerals are re-balanced and the liver is cleaned out... maybe it was shear coincidence, but it seems like with the environment that we live in now a days being imbalanced and toxic our bodies are just doing the best they can...  I guess after a while it all just builds up and comes to a head... come to think of it, she did absess 2 times in 6 months...

In my simple thought process, I like to think that whatever we see on the outside of the horse (puss, ooze, diarrhea, sweat) is a reflection (sometimes symptom) of what is on the inside... please correct me if this is ignorant.

Man, if I only knew then what I know now (or hope to know) =D


Dorothy
Member
 

Joined: Fri Jan 15th, 2010
Location: Bath, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 223
Status:  Offline
Posted: Mon Oct 3rd, 2011 06:39 am
Hello all,

I have an update on Solo, the grey horse. Having treated him following a presumptive diagnosis of ulcers, the sweat patch on his shoulder has completely disappeared.

Alot of the problems that I was having with his lack of OK-ness have also resolved.

A happy outcome

Dorothy

kcooper
Member
 

Joined: Mon May 23rd, 2011
Location: High River, Alberta Canada
Posts: 70
Status:  Offline
Posted: Tue Oct 4th, 2011 07:15 pm
For the last year my horse has a patch of skin about 3" x 5" on his left pectoral muscle sweat profusely every single time he was ridden even if he never broke a sweat anywhere else on his body.
I asked my ostepath about it and she said it was a 'myotome'.
I never got a chance to talk about it in detail with her so I dont even know what a myotome is other than it has to do with nerves but I thought it was worth mentioning especially because the one time treatment she performed made the problem disapear completely.
DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3307
Status:  Offline
Posted: Wed Oct 5th, 2011 05:21 am
Yes, that's exactly the correct term. The sweat patch itself is not the myotome, but it occurs within a myotome.

A myotome is a developmental division in the embryo. Vertebrate embryos are segmented. A myotome is one of these segments, a developmental unit with its own innervation, embryonic 'stem' cells which will become muscles, as well as other tissues.

It is also correct to think that the localized sweating is due to hyperstimulation of the nerves in that myotome. Sweat glands are innervated; when the nerve branchlet that serves a given sweat gland is firing, the gland is stimulated to produce sweat.

There is also an endocrine component to this. The interaction between the nervous and endocrine systems is complex. On a practical basis, your osteopath is right on -- a good way to explain it as well as being technically correct.

To see myotomes in the horse, you can look 'em up in Goody or Sisson and Grossmann -- there are good illustrations of what the myotome divisions look like in the adult animal. The boundaries between these divisions in the adult are completely invisible but nonetheless, stimulation of individual nerve-roots coming out of the spine shows where they are, and it is on that basis that the illustration was produced. -- Dr. Deb

Jobro
Member
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2012
Location:  
Posts: 1
Status:  Offline
Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2012 01:41 am
I have a gelding who had anhydrosis last summer. could not sweat at all. In the fall, he began to sweat in tiny spots on his neck (about 2" in diameter - lots of them).

This spring he sweats in those same spots, not generalized, but he can now sweat very heavily under the saddle blanket.

I am wondering if his sweat pattern will ever return to normal.


On a seperate note, our mare contracted EPM last spring. She sweated heavily on only one hip. It was very odd. She was grade 4 and did not recover.
Jeanette Williams
Guest
 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status:  Offline
Posted: Thu Mar 25th, 2021 09:10 pm
I too have a TB gelding with a localized sweat spot on his near side hip. I have had him for 8 years and it only started about 6 months ago. It is 90% there all the time. When I get him in to work, take his rug off and it is always there, rest of the body fine, no sweat, even in cold weather. Have tried chiro and Contact Care with no change. I've been told "it's just one of those things." But you get paranoid. He is a show jumper and also hunts. He will hump in the canter especially when in my arena at the canter. Work him in slowly. Haven't been able to find any sort of result yet.



Powered by WowBB 1.7 - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez