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Helen
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Joined: Fri Sep 14th, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 147
Status:  Offline
Posted: Wed Jun 2nd, 2010 08:04 am
OK, that makes a lot of sense. The thing I had wrong was assuming that because the muscles could be seen clearly, they were contracting. That's not the case, they are bulging because they have been developed through poor riding. I understood the rest of your post well.

As far as my own riding/horse training goes - I do not have my own horse, nor will I be able to get one in the next 5 years or so, as I am a first year university student with not much money and even less time. I have not ridden the horse pictured.
I do currently ride once a fortnight or so, and I have a huge internal struggle over whether I should continue to do so. I ride at a riding school, taking lessons in dressage and jumping, and as you would expect this involves me being told to do a lot of things that are extremely contrary to that which I hear here and want so badly to try. I try to develop skills that will be applicable when I do have my own horse, like feeling where the horse is placing each foot, balance, asking the horse to twirl the head, telescope the neck during stretching time (which we are allowed, thank goodness) and disengage the hindquarter, observing body language between horses, etc.
I do enjoy jumping as usually the horses we ride are relatively keen jumpers, so I can feel their birdie flying out ahead over the jump and am never told to hold my hands fixed as I am during dressage - it lets me have a little feeling of my desires being the same as the horse's, however fleeting.

But still, I constantly ask myself whether the great joy I get from being around the horses is worth the consistently negative messages I receive from my instructor and fellow riders - things about pushing the horse up into the bridle, punishing him for 'resistance', holding a firm outside rein, and so on. Of course they are all lovely people, but that doesn't make them right.

Really, I suppose I've almost dreaded asking - do you think that it would be better to stop riding altogether than to continue taking these lessons? I get so incredibly frustrated about not being able to try all these amazing exercises and ideas and attitudes which I feel like I'm starting to understand... but at the same time I'm just not sure I could handle not riding at all for so long, and really there's no alternative. I just don't know.

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3322
Status:  Offline
Posted: Wed Jun 2nd, 2010 09:47 pm
Helen, I think you need to take a longer perspective here.

There is NEVER a reason why you can't be around horses. But your brain is kind of frozen into the common types of categories, the common types of ways that you are used to seeing people be around horses.

Also, maybe there is still quite a bit of desire in you to "go for a ride" as opposed to "be of service to horses."

If you can get your mindset into the latter, then a whole world of possibilities opens up.

You can volunteer to exercise somebody else's horse. You could even start a business doing this -- like a "dogsitting" service. And while the owner is away, why, the mice will play, won't they? Nobody says you can't learn to twirl the head on somebody else's horse, or on your school horses for that matter. And if you're employed to ride the horse, why then, you ride him how YOU ride him.

You can volunteer to go clean stalls in trade for being permitted to ride somebody's horse, or in trade for lessons. Look for someone else who is engaged in the style of horsemanship that we advocate.

You can go get a job at Mickey Dee's or the like, and save up your shekels and get yourself a viable automobile. You can then use same to get to wherever you need to. It's the ability to earn money that enables anyone to have horses, anyway. They do not call this the Sport of Kings for nothing.

Because where you need to go is, to begin with, Wayne Anderson's. He's just moved up to NSW I think, but I believe he still does quite a few clinics in his old neighborhood which was fairly close to you down south.

And next, you need to go be with Buck Brannaman next time he's there. Wayne sponsors Buck so that's how you do that. And you need to go meet Harry Whitney, who was also recently in your neighborhood.

So, yes, Helen: I'd certainly take all the money you're currently spending on the worthless pull-and-shove type of lessons, and put that money toward getting WHEELS. Because although you say you want it, and you have said that here for several years, you're also always telling me why you can't have it. Well, honey, now that you're past the age of majority, there's only ONE main calling, and that is to bring in the dough, because lettuce in our society is how we gain personal freedom. Your ability to meet good horsemen is dependent upon nobody but yourself.

You'll be surprised how much you learn by hanging out at a variety of barns and stables, and meeting more different people who have horses that need ridden. NOW GO GET IT. -- Dr. Deb

David Genadek
Member


Joined: Sun May 13th, 2007
Location: Spring Valley, Minnesota USA
Posts: 426
Status:  Offline
Posted: Sun Jun 6th, 2010 04:17 pm
I hate to change this back to necks but after reading this the other day I went to eat lunch and saw a deer in the back yard and took some pictures. I learned in the skeleton class that I could learn to see the subtle differences between horses better if I compared the horse to other animals.  So I though I would put them up to see what everyone can see. How does the deers neck differ from the horses?  Why?

David Genadek

Attachment: deer_necks.jpg


David Genadek
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Joined: Sun May 13th, 2007
Location: Spring Valley, Minnesota USA
Posts: 426
Status:  Offline
Posted: Wed Jun 9th, 2010 03:40 pm
And then we have Mr elephant.

Attachment: elephant_neck.jpg


DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3322
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Posted: Wed Jun 9th, 2010 10:42 pm
Yes, quite the opposite, isn't it. A human would be equally apparently short in the neck. I'll get time later this afternoon to post images of an elephant skeleton for comparison. And maybe a Sable antelope! -- Dr. Deb
David Genadek
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Joined: Sun May 13th, 2007
Location: Spring Valley, Minnesota USA
Posts: 426
Status:  Offline
Posted: Thu Jun 10th, 2010 12:14 am
I'm thinking along the lines of two ratios; The cervical chain relative to the thoracic chain back to the anticlinal vertebra and another ratio of nuchal ligament length to cervical chain length. I'm also thinking about the two triangles that are formed and thier relationship and how it changes as the base of the neck lifts.  I'm thinking the longest  spinal process is a shared side of the two triangles.

When the nuchal ligament ratio to cervical chain is close to one ,as on the deer, the base of the neck can go up and down unrestrained. When the Nuchal ligament is shorter than the cervical chain it forces the arc of motion forward.

David Genadek 


PS Mr Cow

Attachment: cow-necks.jpg


Jacquie
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Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 158
Status:  Offline
Posted: Tue Jun 15th, 2010 04:06 pm
Is this an example of a good telescope or not? I brought Sunny in to see the house at the weekend and he was very interested in the TV. I know its a funny picture (don't anyone EVER tell Geoff he came into the living room) but it really shows him stretching his neck and telescoping it beautifully to reach out and touch the TV face, but I cant decide if it shows a break in his neck or not.

 

Attachment: Sunny watching TV.jpg


DrDeb
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Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3322
Status:  Offline
Posted: Tue Jun 15th, 2010 11:52 pm
Yes, Jacquie, this is a good example of a horse telescoping his neck. And no, there is no break in his neck at all. The animal is cresty, rather.

I have to ask -- do you have hardwood floors, or carpets? -- Dr. Deb

Jacquie
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Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 158
Status:  Offline
Posted: Wed Jun 16th, 2010 10:38 am
Erm there are carpets in the living room. I know, I know. Just dont EVER tell Geoff! Its so funny seeing him in there - he looks so huge! He loves it too - just walks in beside me like a puppy. I am glad you thought he was not 'broken' in the neck - I was just not sure if I was missing something.
DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3322
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Posted: Wed Jun 16th, 2010 06:37 pm
Jacquie, I don't think you're missing anything on neck telescoping. On bringing a horse into the house, though, very possibly yes.

I might have been more inclined to take the TV out to the stable than to bring the horse into the house. Dangerous for the horse, an environment not suited to or designed for horses, and also (minor consideration) very likely not too good for either floors or carpets.

If you want proof of your horse's obedience, Jacquie, I'd suggest next time you build him a new piece of circus equipment. -- Dr. Deb

Jacquie
Member


Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 158
Status:  Offline
Posted: Wed Jun 16th, 2010 07:05 pm
You are right, DD it is not a good thing at all to do with most ponies. A house is a very alien and dangerous environment for ponies, especially if they are fearful of their surroundings - things could get very nasty very quickly. Sunny is exceptional though, and  there is plenty of space in this house, it has really big rooms, That living room is 18 x 18 and the doors are very wide, plus there are wide patio doors in the living room too to use if I needed to get him out quickly. The carpets are definitely at risk, but Sunny was not. I set it up beforehand so that there was not any trip or slip hazards, (he is not shod either) no constrictions with furniture and there are no wires on the floors. I would not let him actually touch the TV screen as the static would give him a little shock, which could produce a strong reaction of course. I have owned this dear pony for over ten years and he very polite and well mannered in hand.  He was actually totally unstressed and very happy in the house - even though it was a very odd environment for him and was not in the least bit spooky, just curious and interested to see the human stables! I dont think its going to be a very regular habit though - especially when he is all muddy and wet in the winter!
Jacquie
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Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 158
Status:  Offline
Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 09:35 am
This picture got taken of him too during the same house call as the previous pic. He did look lovely on the carpet in our iving room. Bless him.

Attachment: Sunny in the living room.jpg


CarolineTwoPonies
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Joined: Sun Mar 15th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 67
Status:  Offline
Posted: Wed Jun 30th, 2010 04:10 am
What kind of handsome horse is he?
Jacquie
Member


Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 158
Status:  Offline
Posted: Fri Jul 2nd, 2010 05:40 pm
Sunny probably has some Welsh mountain pony in his breeding and some New forest pony too we think. Not a pure bred for sure! He has characteristics of both breeds and he is within either size range being only 12:3hh. Just a common cross bred mountain and moorland pony and we love him loads! He can jump, pull a cart, and do several tricks. He is very intelligent and very eager to please. A darling.
HorseSpeak
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Joined: Thu Aug 12th, 2010
Location:  
Posts: 38
Status:  Offline
Posted: Sun Mar 20th, 2011 01:28 am
David Genadek wrote: I hate to change this back to necks but after reading this the other day I went to eat lunch and saw a deer in the back yard and took some pictures. I learned in the skeleton class that I could learn to see the subtle differences between horses better if I compared the horse to other animals.  So I though I would put them up to see what everyone can see. How does the deers neck differ from the horses?  Why?

David Genadek

Interesting questions! I have often wondered how the hind end structure of the deer is different from the horse as I witness them springing over the road then jump almost straight up to clear a fence. It amazes me how they can jump. What is it about their conformation that lets them jump/leap upward like that? And are there similar characteristics bred into horse breeds/lines that would help a horse perform well in jumping?  Hmmmm....more to look into!




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