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Turning Left
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MtnHorse
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 Posted: Thu May 19th, 2011 06:17 pm
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Daniela, if I gave the impression of being mad or lashing out I apologize that certainly was not the case.  Congratulations on your excellent ride.  Around here the horses are a lot more temperamental in the spring but the other evening it was different.  With the EHV-1 stuff going on I just rode in the pasture.  The horse I was on had his birdie totally right there and he relaxed his topline, untracked, backed, and turned with just the lightest cues.  We got a love fest going with my old warhorse and the mare.  The three of them were chewing on each other and I was rubbing them from the saddle. Just one of those peaceful memories I hope to keep for a long time.

Anyway, I think Dr Deb and I may have been communicating in a way that you might have missed.  She told me to go find someone else because she was not interested in teaching me the basics of riding.  I mean my question was not really all that analytical; like I said it’s about learning good technique because the way to  “never think about all those nagging details” is to get the simple correct movements into muscle memory so that they can just happen when the time is right.

I followed her suggestion and went out and purchased Mike Schaffer’s ebook and rented a couple Buck and Ray DVD’s.  Mike especially very clearly laid out his ideas on basic riding and I am quite satisfied with Dr Debs advice.  I have been quietly chewing through many good reads in the archives.

Maybe someday I will come back for this idea of the evils of cogitation but so far I have not felt the need.  

FROM DR. DEB: No, Mtn, I did not at any time refuse to teach you the basics of riding. I asked you to begin from the beginning, which is to say, to find and become familiar with your inner body or your inner clarity, which is the root source of "feel". Feel is, in turn, the whole basis for the superficial, mechanical aids. Cogitation is indeed an evil, because it blocks feel. You need to "get" this before you will be able to make any real progress. Other people do not receive the lessons you receive, because every student displays, through their words and attitude, what their special needs are. -- Dr. Deb

Last edited on Thu Jun 2nd, 2011 07:38 pm by DrDeb

Daniela LeBlanc
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 Posted: Thu May 19th, 2011 08:28 pm
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Might be that I took your exchange the wrong way. I am glad you followed her "cookie crumbs" and make your own journey :) Glad you had an excellent day. I know what you mean by spring weather. I forgot how it can energize my guys! Couple that with the wind we've been having here in the outlying regions of Chicago, and you get the picture. It makes your time with your horses so much more exciting ;)

smithywess
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 Posted: Fri May 20th, 2011 10:11 pm
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Good for you MtnHorse. If we plan to communicate with our horses through the language of the aids then we'd better learn the language of the aids.That's how we make correct turns to the left as you asked at the start.

FROM DR. DEB: Wes, there is no such thing as a "correct turn to the left." There is no correct or incorrect. Mechanical aids are a non-issue once the student begins to grasp some of the deeper approach. -- Dr. Deb

Last edited on Thu Jun 2nd, 2011 07:40 pm by DrDeb

Ola
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 Posted: Sat May 21st, 2011 08:31 pm
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smithywess wrote: Good for you MtnHorse. If we plan to communicate with our horses through the language of the aidsJust what immediately came into my mind after reading your message.. Isn't it better to PLAN to communicate with horses through their MAIN language - which is mental pictures than OUR language - physical aids? I know it appears a bit risky to state such a thing. We all could probably agree that horses 'talk' through their bodies, but yet - what  does the body do? It is only the visible outcome of something that is happening INSIDE the horse, so the inside of the horse is something you want to target. I believe the main channel all animals communicate is of psychic nature.

I think this concept of communication is much more sophisticated than simply using 'correct aids'.. Personally, this is not the direction I am following and this is not the goal I am striving to achieve. At all times, no matter how honest we are in our insides and outsides, your virgin intention gets broken in spoken words and physical actions. Whenever you get across good pictures and emotions and let your body go with the flow, it will adjust itself to the situation perfectly - provided it's balanced and relaxed. Doing it consciously, no matter how focused you might be, will never be the same!
It's just a thought, co please feel free to correct me ;)
Ola

Daniela LeBlanc
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 Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2011 05:09 am
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Actually, a horse's main language and energy is body language as I understand it. I am not sure what you referred to by "mental pictures" but I read it almost like telepathy. I "picture" turning left so my horse turns left. Does your body change ever so slightly to influence the horse thereby aiding him/her when you think of turning left? Would you then say that your thought was followed by a change in your body? I think that's what we would want to achieve in the end (being unconsciously competent) versus applying the physical aids by having to think of them (being consciously competent - well, or imcompetent!).

It doesn't just apply to riding either but to every other thing you do with your horse. How do you lead him out of his paddock? Do you have to pull him? Does he come willingly? Can you even put a halter on him because he is offering it to you or do you have to "wrestle" it on? I think the left turn starts way before the left turn. It starts with us asking: is my horse tuned in to me and more imporantly: am I tuned into my horse? And if we are not tuned into each other, how do we accomplish this?

Daniela

Last edited on Sun May 22nd, 2011 05:16 am by Daniela LeBlanc

kcooper
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 Posted: Fri May 27th, 2011 04:00 pm
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From personal experience I believe there is 'the long route' and 'the shorter route' and both have positives and negatives. I have rode since I was 2 but I was never taught to ride with feel nor were the horses I was riding ever rode by someone riding with feel. It was years of just going through the motions on dull horses. I really cant think of too much that I learned in those years that helps me out today. I bought a green hot blooded cow horse when I was 18 and set out to learn to barrel race (obviously my world with my horses has developed into something much more broad than just barrels now).....it was 10 years of trial and error, some clinics, and thank fully because I loved my horse and wanted to do better for him lots of research and reading. I developed feel and timing and made and awesome horse who is 100% ok inside. I now have 4 green horses and it is such a relief to have that knowledge of what to do with your body to get your intentions across as clearly as possible instead of trying to make your way in the dark (or so it felt) with your horse. I have found that I find the place to quit my ride because they have 'tried' and accomplish part or all of what we set out to do in 15 minutes or less as opposed to sessions I remember where we said we were going to have to order Chinese food for dinner because we were gonna be in the arena for awhile longer.... cringe:(
I still feel sick when I think about how it feels to hit the wall and want so bad to figure it out for your horses sake!
I have found that when your muscle memory has you performing some maneuver wrong it takes me breaking it down into a series of exact steps of right (or more clear motions) to get it reformatted in my head and body. You shouldn't have to work on it all day but it should translate into your developing that feel for the motion and your horse will be happier.
Although I am very glad I took the long route and followed the bread crumbs (what you learn on that route you cant learn any other way) I doubt I would be blessed again with a horse that could go through that with me and still come out victorious and sane on the other side!
I have since leased out my 'best boy' to a 15 year old girl who doesn't have 10 years to figure it out on my horse (I couldn't stand to watch that movie again) and so I find I break things down into a series of steps like you guys are talking about and then from that she 'feels' what it is supposed to feel like (because he is so broke and soft) so then in fairly short order she is able to eliminate the actual 'first you do this then this then this stuff'. But you know.....I think the girl who has my horse now if left on her own would either wreck the horse or quit riding....and of course I would move the earth not to have my horse wrecked but perhaps it is better that people who are not willing to follow the bread crumbs and beg for the right help from the right people because every cell in there body wants more than anything to get it right for there horse should quit. That thought just came to me....hmmm
Dr Deb I value your information/contributions sooo much. (Sorry this doesnt exactly pertain to this thread but I want to get it out)....How many teachers of conformation and especially horsemanship out there actually perform dissections....on such an intense educated professional level? I bet not many. I know from experience hunting and 'boning' out animals to put into packs and 'pack' of the moutnain that I have got to have a good look at what animals look like with there clothes off and subsequently how a shoulder joint, hip joint, spinal column actual works with the rest of the body to create movement. I just believe that knowing how horses are meant to move teaches you how best to ride them. Not to mention learning the affects on the equine when things are not done in there best interest. You have a life long student in me.
Sincerely,
Kim Cooper

Ola
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 Posted: Sun May 29th, 2011 08:00 pm
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Does your body change ever so slightly to influence the horse thereby aiding him/her when you think of turning left?
 
Yes, it does. And yes, it is all about being with horses in general, not only about turning left – you could apply those rules to anything you do with them.
I don’t want you to misunderstand me – I believe physical body is very important, too. Not only does it make your intention clearer and more visible (e.g. while flag work or when you teach the horse how to yield), but it also plays physiotherapeutic role. When you encourage head twirling, you must raise your hand a little. When you gently tap with your inside calf, your horse tends to bend. Your touch forces some muscles to contract (I mean when you sit on the horse’s back – you press him downward), but can also help them to relax. But as for ‘mental pictures’.. I see it as a kind of a spectrum: at the beginning you have to use a lot of physical aids, you wonder what kind of them would be the best (I used to think of it an AWFUL lot – where to place my weight more while turning and doing lateral work, which leg should initiate canter etc.), but the more you are advanced in your riding, the less you have to rely on physical aids. What is more.. for me there is no such a thing as ‘correct aids’. An aid, as I understand it is a signal that is followed by certain action performed by a horse, and a horse understands what he should do just after the signal. An aid is a kind of agreement between you two. In turn, it really does not matter if you teach a horse canter or doing pirouette on the touch of your leg, tapping with your left hand his right haunch or pulling on his left ear..

‘Mental pictures’ are something totally different than what you call ‘muscle memory’. Muscle memory is when you e.g. initiate the canter by doing some movements like squeezing with your inside leg, moving back your outside etc. and you do it so often that it becomes your ‘second life’ – you can do it almost without thinking, automatically. But it is still going through the same physical movements, even if refined ones. They are in your mind all the time and in my opinion prevent you from feeling the horse properly, riding in the moment. I remember riding on a very attentive mare about a year ago. I experimented with my seat a little, I tried to ‘tune in’ and feel her every single step. She was very young and was never taught a halt from walk. When I was feeling her hindquarters move, I tried to ‘anchor’ her left, then her right leg. It worked perfectly – she stopped. I praised her a lot and our communication began to improve – I could stop her but also walk shorter/longer steps. Next time I saw another girl riding the same horse. It seemed that she wanted to trot her to death, so I told her ‘This mare is great at halting from walk and changing the length of the steps – try it, you don’t need reins and your legs at all.’ And guess what – the girl tried to stop the horse, tapped the mare with her legs, used her buttocks and reins just as a mere crutch (no pulling) but it did not work. The mare appeared so confused. So what did I do to make her stop? And how could I explain to her what to do? My body DID some tiny gestures for sure, but I cannot even name them. Did I contract X muscle or Y? It doesn’t really matter, and believe me, I am not able to tell you! What was the most important thing, is that I pictured it in my mind, felt the horse’s steps and acted as if my body was horse’s body. So now, if I wanted to tell you what to do to halt the horse, I would say ‘anchor his feet with your buttocks’- and this should give you a feeling or a picture how to do it.

I have always wanted to know what ‘aids’ I am supposed to use to HELP the horse. Am I to put this leg more forward? More weight on the outside buttock? And then I read one of Dr Deb’s posts: “Just sit. Sit square in the middle of the horse.”
There is no shoving/prodding/misplacing weight/squeezing gesture that would help your horse. Even slight movements are sometimes way to exaggerated! Instead, you let your horse show you where the weight should flow, or how your shoulders must be kept. I will repeat once again, if you try to do it consciously, your movement will be just a ridiculous imitation of true unity and there will be no feel in your riding.
 
I hope that it makes sense.. Ola

Last edited on Sun May 29th, 2011 08:04 pm by Ola

DrDeb
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 Posted: Mon May 30th, 2011 05:03 am
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Yes, Ola. Our elderly teacher would get the type of student who was very eager to do everything "right" -- mechanically. Typically these people ride like wooden dolls; they are "posing on horseback". He would do two things about this:

(1) Teach them how to pet their horse right. This meant specifically that he would teach them to pet the horse with right intention, so that warm energy, or if you like to call it "love" that would be OK too, would flow from their hands into the horse. Later, it could also start flowing from the rider's hands, through the reins, into the horse's mouth and/or into the feet. After this, one man who had been having trouble bridling his stallion because his touch was "wrong" said: "Tom kept telling me to touch him more softly, and I tried very hard to do that, but the horse didn't get too much better. It got a lot better, though, when I suddenly realized I was touching him more and more softly with a board."

(2) Ask them to cut what they were doing in half. In other words -- cut the amount of force they were pulling on the reins with in half, and cut the amount of pressure they were putting on the horse with their legs in half. And when the rider would comply, and it was evident that they had complied, he would call them over again and say, "now cut it in half again." And often, he would call them a third or even a fourth time. Every time the rider lightened up (that is, started looking for the "small spot"), the improvement in the horse's ability and willingness to turn and stop was obvious.

The commitment is to do all that it must take, but also, to be looking at every moment for how little it might take. -- Dr. Deb

MtnHorse
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 Posted: Tue May 31st, 2011 09:53 pm
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DrDeb wrote: Yes, Ola. Our elderly teacher would get the type of student who was very eager to do everything "right". . . . Ask them to cut what they were doing in half. In other words -- cut the amount of force they were pulling on the reins with in half. . . .


If they were trying to do things right why would they be using excess pressure?  There is nothing particularly right about that when the release is more important than the pressure anyway.

FROM DR. DEB: They were using excess pressure, K.D., because they were making a mistake. They did not know which mistake they were making, but they at least knew (and were willing to admit) that they were making SOME mistake; and so they came to our teacher and asked him for help.

 

Ola wrote:

There is no shoving/prodding/misplacing weight/squeezing gesture that would help your horse. Even slight movements are sometimes way to exaggerated! Instead, you let your horse show you where the weight should flow, or how your shoulders must be kept. I will repeat once again, if you try to do it consciously, your movement will be just a ridiculous imitation of true unity and there will be no feel in your riding.

 

Well  KCooper, if I may speak from what he has posted, and I both rode for years and years and tried very hard to do the best we could.  We tried to just use feel and quite honestly it didn’t happen.


FROM DR. DEB: Yes, K.D., the reason that 'feel' does not happen for you is because you refuse to look into yourself -- you have refused to examine the Observer and the Chatterer. Feel comes from deep within. You are too scared to do this, I think, because the Chatterer has, for many years, been in fairly extensive control of your body and of the words that come out of your mouth. And, as I previously said, the Chatterer is utterly terrified of being "seen" -- for as soon as it is seen, it begins to die, and it then fights like unholy Hell to cling to the control that gives it life. The refusal of the Observer to acknowledge the Dark Self and take back control from it is the root cause for drug abuse. 

Quoting KCooper:

so I find I break things down into a series of steps like you guys are talking about and then from that she 'feels' what it is supposed to feel like (because he is so broke and soft) so then in fairly short order she is able to eliminate the actual 'first you do this then this then this stuff'. But you know.....I think the girl who has my horse now if left on her own would either wreck the horse or quit riding....

 

This is my experience as well.  Most people don’t learn just from feeling and knowing.  Let me correct that, I don’t.  I didn’t discover head twirling, or untracking on my own.   I don’t think I have ever read that by tensing the muscles of my core and relaxing my posterior chain, I can encourage the horse to do the same.  Still the idea would never have occurred to me without reading True Collection and The Ring of Muscles.

I still believe as I stated above that  we commit an action to muscle memory by repetition.  Once it is fairly established then we don’t have to think about it anymore and that open’s the possibility to concentrate on feel and timing.  Don’t you believe that riding right with good skills and techniques opens the door to riding by feel?  Otherwise why would we bother with a forum, or books, or magazine subscriptions?


FROM DR. DEB: Once again, K.D., you have it backwards. With a person who already has moderately good skills in the saddle, as you do -- so that they are in no danger of falling off -- then that is almost all the technical skill that they will ever need. There will come refinements eventually, i.e. when you get your horses a LOT lighter and a LOT more supple than they now are; but you need to connect with your feel to get to that stage. Indeed it is because you haven't been willing to work on finding your inner self, the source of feel, that your horses are as thuddingly heavy and as bricklike and stiff to turn as they are. You want something better, yes -- and that is why YOU "bother" with this Forum, or books, or magazines. I am doing my utmost here to help you have what you say you want. But in order for me to help you, you must be willing to trust and therefore to obey me to the letter.

Last edited on Thu Jun 2nd, 2011 07:56 pm by DrDeb

kcooper
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 Posted: Wed Jun 1st, 2011 12:46 am
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Hi MtnHorse,



I am new to this site also. When I first stumbled on to Dr Debs articles in Eclectic Horseman I was positively elated because her material regarding bio mechanics, conformation and how a horse was best to be ridden in light of how they are put together was exactly what I have been looking for. AND....how it is in the horses best interest not to be ridden or trained using gimmicks like tie downs ect. AND.....that we dont need a trainer or any other human imposed 'levels'. Music to my ears! But I must say that my heart sunk a little when I found out through reading many posts (very amusing I might add) that I, along with many other seemingly analytical break it down into steps kind of people, were not going to get the kind of answers we were looking for. Sigh. Well.....thankfully it only took me about 72 hours of going from reading and then trying things out with my horses to figure out that I was smart enough to use the information on this site and it was going to be many times over more help to me then just perfecting the sequence of steps to execute the desired manoeuvre. I have gone back now and read Dr Debs response to you about cogitation:



Cogitation, you see, is quite different from thinking, which is the clarity that comes from awareness. Cogitation is a form of obsessive drive that mimics thinking. However, it does not produce clarity but instead internal noise, and in a very bad case it can produce so much internal noise that the person cannot think or achieve clarity at all. They cannot "hear themselves think".

But to be fully present, as Ray wanted us to be, means first to silence the internal cogitator that worries about each-and-every-detail, and whose whole existence is fed by "should do thisses" and "should not do thats" -- in other words, the fear on the person's part that they "aren't doing it right."



At first I didnt even realize that I didnt understand what she said but I sure do now and I think I grasp a good 80% of the meaning and how it applys to me and what I do.

Have you read this thread?

http://esiforum.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=116&forum_id=1&highlight=raising+base+of+neck

and also this one

http://esiforum.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=135&forum_id=1&highlight=raising+base+of+neck

Its the one that really helped me turn the corner away from my forceful (even though I am a female) analytical self. Three things specifically that I have read that have had the biggest impact so far.... 1) Where Dr Deb makes a visual reference to a slinky when talking about "the flow of weight and energy" and the when you "clash" the flow and energy you create turmoil.....and I am pretty convinced that I have caused a fair bit of turmoil by clashing weight and energy and I am also convinced that the turmoil I caused was the result of the "white noise" that I created being over analytical in trying to accomplish whatever I thought needed to be accomplished.....even though my only intention was to be better for my horse. 2)The mannering exercises (somewhere that I read) set me up to understand what being present actually entailed which I thought transferred rather well from the ground to the saddle and made me embarrassed that I hadn't had that level of communication all along with my horses when it was right there under my nose!!. and 3) they talk about a "Slow walk fast walk exercise" that I haven't even tried yet....will try tonight but I can already see the mountain of significance it holds (coupled with the ones I mentioned above) in building my/the riders timing and feel and thus.....our own answers to our analytical questions.
I would like to know what you think MtnHorse if you feel like responding. I think this is a good class to be a part of not solely for horsemanship skills, I can see the opportunity for some serious character building for myself anyways if I stick around.

And Dr Deb, I hope I have been playing by the rules.....I saw a reference in a post that there was a link to the do's and don'ts of the forum but I haven't found it (I have looked for things before that were there all along so...)

Thank You

Kim

MtnHorse
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 Posted: Thu Jun 2nd, 2011 05:39 pm
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kcooper wrote: I would like to know what you think MtnHorse if you feel like responding. I think this is a good class to be a part of not solely for horsemanship skills, I can see the opportunity for some serious character building for myself anyways if I stick around.


 

My apology for mistaking your gender, Kim.  I had planned to make it a he/she reference but forgot about it while writing the reply.

Anway I have a dubious character and kind of like it that way, so I am not to worried about building it.  As to what I think, I am attempting to be quiet and spend my time in study and active experimentation with my horses.  So I will (hopefully) politely decline to talk about what I think.

The best breathe is taken over the ears of a horse.  Good riding to you Kim.

DrDeb
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 Posted: Thu Jun 2nd, 2011 07:09 pm
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Mtn -- If you decline to say what you think -- as you have previously declined to even THINK about what you think -- then why do you come here? Many of your posts seem negative in some way -- i.e. rootedly stubborn, non-participatory, clinging to (or touting) your own little package of knowledge, or even mocking. How do you figure that this type of attitude will foster either the discussion ongoing here, or your own progress as a horse owner/trainer?

I want to remind you that this is not only my classroom, it is "a" classroom, in other words, a place where friends meet with a teacher for the purpose of increasing their knowledge and skills. If you don't want to participate, that's fine; but in that case, please find the door at the back of the room and go through it for once and all. This will be a courtesy to me and to everyone else.

Alternatively, you can go back to the very first reply that you were given, i.e. to say out loud, "I have an inner body," and then report back to us what the results of that have been for you and your horses. That's where we start with each student: at Square One. -- Dr. Deb

MtnHorse
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 Posted: Thu Jun 2nd, 2011 08:58 pm
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Well Dr Deb I am about flabbergasted.  Here is a quote from the first thread KCooper referred me to:

Dr Deb:

When I go to see my teachers, I don't say much, because I'm not there to try to justify myself or to teach them, or to offer them anything. I ask a few questions perhaps -- key questions -- and then I think for a long time about the answer that I receive. I chew it over quite a bit, because I believe in my teachers -- they are offering me something that might have more to it than would meet the eye just at first. [End Quote]

 

Granted, I have tried to participate.  Especially, but not exclusively when the comments are in my own thread and seem directed at me. It would seem rude to not and I consider it reasonable to articulate the way I see things.  I do not mean to be negative but stubborn perhaps.  It is my nature.  

When I told you what I think you told me to stop being defensive and then ask me questions I can’t really answer without sounding defensive.  I am put in another double bind of having to choose between being someone who can not think at all or an observer.  An observer is someone who watches TV.  He sits in the stands.  I decided as a child that was not the kind of person I want to be.  The only option left to me is to decline to play.  As a teacher you surely knew this was a possibility.

So that brings us back to the beginning.  I have since your request repeated out loud when feasible and under my breathe when in public the saying “I have an inner body.”    There is nothing to report.  What am I supposed to say?  Sure there have been changes in my understanding and in my horses as I practice concepts like head twirling or Schaffer’s groundwork.  I could try to reason out why your request hasn’t had an effect but that would go back to being defensive.  And in saying the above I am back again to sounding negative.

Most people would probably just quit like you have asked me to but now we’re back to that stubborn thing again.  Perhaps the way it feels to be consistently put in double binds is the lesson I need to learn. 

Blue Flame
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 Posted: Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 12:57 am
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As I'm still getting the feel of this classrom, I hope that this post falls under the category of discussion without interfering with the actual lesson. As always, please delete if inappropriate.

MtnHorse wrote:
Perhaps the way it feels to be consistently put in double binds is the lesson I need to learn.


I'm not sure if this has any relevence here but your phrase "double bind" for some reason brought to mind the practice of contemplating a "Zen Koan".

Speaking personally, I learned through martial arts and meditation that you do not always arrive at the answer you seek via the route that you expected to take to get there. Further, the journey to the answer affects the depth of understanding of that answer. Some things need to be experienced rather than merely described.

I assume that Dr. Deb's intention is that you arrive at a level of understanding that goes beyond that of a "surface worker" - of which there is a distinct possibility of occurring if you are just given the purely physical or mechanical answer to your original question. Instead of being given that kind of answer, you are being given the means to discover it for yourself at a much deeper level. This might make it seem that you are being led to an answer unrelated to the question you originally asked - but only because the answer is on a deeper level than originally concieved of when you asked the question.

As with a Koan, the answer is not given by the teacher, but discovered by the student, for the experience gained during the process of discovery is the whole point. Trust that there is something to discover here. Dr. Deb is not one to play games with you or be deceptive - exposing the cogitator (what some might call ego or self) and knowing it for what it really is, is one of the most profound lessons one can learn.

I'm really not trying to be cryptic here, just saying that there are many layers to understanding, hence your intial responses are at a certain level. Try to discover the other/deeper levels - they are subtle and quiet and often not easily put into words.

I'll end and then hold my tongue with this final quote given me by a past mentor.

"The map is not the territory."

Best wishes,

Sandy

Last edited on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 01:20 am by Blue Flame

Daniela LeBlanc
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 Posted: Sat Jun 4th, 2011 04:59 am
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MtnHorse wrote:  When I told you what I think you told me to stop being defensive and then ask me questions I can’t really answer without sounding defensive. Most people would probably just quit like you have asked me to but now we’re back to that stubborn thing again.  Perhaps the way it feels to be consistently put in double binds is the lesson I need to learn. 

Nobody puts you in any kind of bind - you do it yourself. It's the same as a person saying they are being taken advantage of - you can't be taken advantage of unless you allow it.

MtnHrse - it's not what you know, it's what you don't know that will drive you forward - searching, finding, growing, listening, quieting, stilling your mind and body. And before you respond, do all of those things. It might cause you to write a very different response. As a matter of fact, write out what you think when you read Dr Deb's response, and come back to it a week later, write it again. See what the difference is. I'd bet, you'd find a huge difference.

At least I hope so

Daniela


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