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barefoot trim
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Jacquie
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Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 158
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 Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 06:01 pm
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Hi Joe,

As you wrote this I had to respond!!

'Unfortunately, the horse world is a quack magnet.  I don't know why, but silly or outright bad ideas easily take the wings of fad and fly through the horse barns of the world like bats around a New England belfry.  Quackery, fraud, and incompetence abound.'

As a professional ecological consultant, specialising in bats, I would like to point out that bats don't much care for Belfrys, (by and large) as they are usually too draughty and full of pigeons and in the bat consultancy world there is to be found quackery, fraud, and incompetence in unhealthily large dollops.

In all walks there are these kinds of people. the trouble is that it is sometimes difficult to recognise them as such as they are often convincing and earnest in their mistaken or biased assertions.


Have a good christmas all

Jacquie


Joe
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Joined: Mon Apr 16th, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 282
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 Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 09:38 pm
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Leigh:

And how.  I've learned more in the last three years or so hanging around here than the prior 20.

Jacquie:

No batophobe I. 

FWIW, they may not like belfrys that much, but plenty of my relatives and in-laws have bats in their belfrys, so it must not be an absolute thing with bats.  I myself kind of like bats except for the little buggers that get into my cabin and shed when they are closed in the winter and crap all over everything. 

You should have seen me one fall trying to catch two of them with a fishing net so I could estort them out the door.  Didn't work.

Joe

Last edited on Sat Dec 20th, 2008 09:44 pm by Joe

minimitts
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Joined: Fri Apr 27th, 2007
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 09:15 pm
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Hi Adam,

Question for you ~ on the horse w/M-L imbalance, were the collateral grooves equal in depth before your initial trim, or was the groove on the imbalanced side deeper?  Hope you're enjoying your new Icelandic! ~christina

Jacquie
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Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 158
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 10:25 pm
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Hi Joe

 

I am sure you are not battist at all! 

Thats really interesting though that you get bats coming into your shed in the autumn. Some bats migrate and some do not. I wonder what species the ones in your shed could be? Your shed could be a lekking site, which is the name given to a site used for advertising for a mate!! It is also not an absolute here about bats in belfrys, but in the UK the belfrys are in our ancient stone built church towers and are mostly unsuitable for bats except in some which have smaller access holes and others where the crevices and holes make safe places to get away from the birds and draughts. I suspect the belfrys in USA may be a little different in construction to ours. Perhaps they are more bat friendly. It is very cool that your friends and your in-laws have their own belfrys too! Most impressive!

By the way, bat droppings are not harmful and 70% of the worlds bat species eat only insects and more than 1/2 of the USA's bat species are endangered. There are over 1000 bat species globally. Insectivorous bat droppings only contain the dry remains of the exo skeletons of the insects the bats have eaten. Some bats in southern, warmer parts of USA will be pollen eaters too though. We don't get those here in UK as it is too cold!

Bats are almost as interesting as horses and they are far harder to catch! I use a mist net and a harp trap and sometimes a hand net in very enclosed areas, but they are really quick to take avoiding action - even in pitch dark using only echo-location to navigate, they still fly rings around us when we are trapping them to radio track or take measurements!

Jacquie

Last edited on Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 10:37 pm by Jacquie

Joe
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Joined: Mon Apr 16th, 2007
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 10:37 pm
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Best I could tell from my books, the ones in the house and shed are Little Brown Bats.  The cabin and shed are made of logs, now almost 80 years old.  The bats live in the chinks of the logs year 'round, but seem to spend more time indoors in the cold months in Minnesota.  Or, perhaps they do migrate and I have the honor or operating a bat brothel or matchmaking service.

The real problem with the droppings is that they spoil finishes and rust tools, and they (the bats and the droppings) make the teenaged girls in the clan squeal and complain to an annoying extent.

I enjoy watching them (bats, not girls) hunt insects in the gloaming.

The ones in my relatives belfrys seem to be a more malignant sort...

J

Last edited on Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 10:41 pm by Joe

AdamTill
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Joined: Tue Mar 27th, 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posts: 289
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 11:18 pm
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minimitts wrote: Hi Adam,

Question for you ~ on the horse w/M-L imbalance, were the collateral grooves equal in depth before your initial trim, or was the groove on the imbalanced side deeper?  Hope you're enjoying your new Icelandic! ~christina

Hey Christina,

I remember talking to you about the horse back in '06, but couldn't find any mention of groove depth in my old emails. Not sure how solid that concept was for me at the time.

Looking at the old xrays I'd requested, I think they were uneven, showing more depth under the higher wing:


This was what looking down the limb looked like:



Poor critter wasn't in great shape at the time.

Hope your course went well!
Cheers,
Adam

Jacquie
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Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
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 Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2008 07:40 am
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Hi Joe

If I am ever in your neck of the woods I would love to come to see your bats - and your relatives malignant bats sound most interesting.......!  I am coming to southern Arizona in May for a bat workshop the Bat Conservation International are running there, but thats a long way away from you I think! It will be really interesting to see the bats in the USA close up. I have worked on many bat research projects in UK and France, and find all exotic bats really fascinating.

Jacquie

Joe
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Joined: Mon Apr 16th, 2007
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2008 12:27 pm
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Jacquie:

You'd be welcome. However, any part of Arizona is more than a thousand miles from my home in Texas and even further from place in Minnesota I share with the Little Brown Bats.

My relative's bats, of course, travel with them...

J

Indy
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Joined: Mon Aug 4th, 2008
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 145
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 Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2008 04:14 pm
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Jacquie,
In my old barn we used to have a lot of bats. In the spring and summer the bats would be everywhere. We would always cover our hay with tarps to try and keep it free from the bat poop. They made a huge mess. I always avoided going into the loft around dusk because their shrieking sent chills through me... guess I have heard too many bat myths.

Jacquie
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Joined: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007
Location: Nr. Frome, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 158
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 Posted: Sat Dec 27th, 2008 06:17 pm
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Hi Indy

Yes Dracula stories have done a lot of harm to this innocent mammal.

They do not get stuck in your hair

There are only 2 true blood sucking vampire species - out of over 1000 species of bats - and these only occur in South America. Vampire bats are feared there too -  due to ignorance and myths, and whole trees have been known to be set alight if bats are thought to be roosting in them, often mistaking the wrong species for vampires.

Bats have really hard time globally for so many reasons, and are often featured on the endangered lists but most of the reasons for their decline are connected to humans.

Do you like bananas though? Or Tequila?

If so you need bats to be protected as these are the only creatures who pollinate banana flowers and cactus flowers used to produce Tequila.

There are many other very good things about bats too - but I think this is supposed to be a horsey forum!!!!

Just try not to fear your bats and please don't block them out of your outbuildings and barns! Protect your stuff from becoming messy with a tarpaulin or something and consider investing in a nice wooden bat house fixed up on a pole or the side of the house or barn, which can be made yourself or bought from the Bat Conservation International to give some more wonderful bats a good home!

If you do have bats in your area then your area must a very lovely and healthy one indeed because they are a considered to be 'bio indicator species'. This means that as they are at the top of the food chain and must have healthy countryside in order to have sufficient foraging to sustain them, if they are present the area must be healthy - less pesticides and herbicides, healthier and less polluted water bodies and a better variety of mature trees and shrubs - a greater diversity of flora, which all produce more insects/pollen for the bats to eat.

If anyone has any questions about bats or problems with your bats please feel free to email me directly and I will try to help. I do this kind of thing for a living!


Jacquie

Joe
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Joined: Mon Apr 16th, 2007
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 05:49 pm
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Apropos of feet, shoeing and so forth, the following might be interesting:

"Resolution No. 13

Horseshoes and horse-shoe nails

After careful examination of the subject of horseshoeing and horseshoes for the cavalry, the Board desires to express its favorable opinion of the Goodenough shoe and system of shoeing, and its advantages for service.

The frog and interior part of the horse's hoof are not cut away as in the system now in vogue, and the only preparation consists in trimming the outer wall of the hoof so that the weight of the horse is partly supported by the frog...

This system does not represent a new and untried idea, as it has been thoroughly tested for a number of years in the United States and in England, and favorable reports have been received from all directions."


This quote was taken from the report of the Cavalry Board of 1874.  This board comprised an exceptional group of working officers with current experience in the west.  It met intensively for five months.

Western frontier conditions had caused a re-evaluation of all manner of techniques and equipment, as troops would be in the field for months at a time, often very far from any resupply depots for either horses or equipment.  Some cavalry units in the west rode as much as 7,000 miles a year (no typo -- 7,000).  Obviously, their lives depended on the soundness of both horses and gear.

So, it is interesting that shoes and trims were part of the debate back then.  It is also interesting that shoeing to allow partial support by the frog was not a new idea in 1874.

Joe


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