ESI Q and A Forums Home
 Search       Members   Calendar   Help   Home 
Search by username
Not logged in - Login | Register 

Raising the base of the neck
 Moderated by: DrDeb  
 New Topic   Reply   Print 
AuthorPost
DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3254
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Dec 27th, 2013 07:16 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Igor, I'm happy to have your report of progress. You're certainly working in the right way.

As to alternating shoulder-in with haunches-in:

Put the horse on a circle with a diameter a little larger than he's normally comfortable with. At a walk this will probably be 8 meters, so you ride a 10 or 12 M circle at a walk. At a trot it will probably be 15 meters, so you ride 17 M or 20 M. This is to make it a little easier for the horse at first.

Have him bent correctly to this circle, and while you remain on the circle, put him in shoulder-in. Ride two-thirds the distance around the circle.

Then shift your aids so as to put him straight on the circle for two or three steps; and then shift again so that you put him in haunches-in while he still remains upon the same circle. Ride one-third the distance around the circle, then straighten him, then go back to shoulder-in.

You can also do this alternation on any straight line, but you'll find that asking it on the circle at first makes it not only easier for the horse but more effective. The shift from shoulder-in to haunches-in requires real concentration and obedience from the horse, while the shift from haunches-in to shoulder-in is just plain pretty.

Jeannie's comment is helpful also, where she suggests that if you haven't taught the horse haunches-in yet, it is usually good to begin by line-driving the horse on the ground. Walk fairly close up behind the horse and use a short bat or whipstock -- tap it against one haunch -- to give the horse the idea to curve his haunches to the opposite side while he walks forward. -- Dr. Deb

nejc
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 30th, 2008
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 31
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sat Jan 18th, 2014 05:36 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Dr. Deb, thank you for your encouragement and instruction. I try the exercise and after initial clumsiness it went really fine and without any problem. It seems that for my horse it was even easier to figure it out on the strait line. Maybe this was so because till now we practiced shoulder in and hunches in only coming out of the circle on the strait line. Some times when I am not concentrated enough I do shoulder-in / hunches-in without straitening the horse. It is kind of the circling of the “C” shape and it went on the first glance without any problem.
I am doing all of the exercises only in walk (stopping, backing, one step at a time, twirling the head, untracking, leg yielding, shoulder in, traver, turning on the forehand, turning on hunches, al kind of circling and spiraling and riding corners, extending and shortening of the steps etc.). I do a rocker too; walk-stop-backing- walk or trot or canter. It works really well. I do also a bit of trot – a two or three circles in both directions and around arena and the same in canter. But I still do not do any other exercise in trot or canter. I think that in the future I should practice more in trot and canter.  But before that there must be better downward transitions. There is no problem with transition from trot to walk. But the transition from canter to trot or walk is still not systematical. Let me put this way – out of 10 transitions 6 or 7 go really well but the problem is because I do not know how I do them. I must do something well and on other 4 occasions something bad because I end up in bumpy tort. 2 of 6 good ones I do even from canter to walk - the problem is the same - I have no idea how the horse do it, so I cannot cause it systematically.
Any suggestions?  Best, Igor

nejc
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 30th, 2008
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 31
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Jan 21st, 2014 06:01 pm
 Quote  Reply 
I did it. Yesterday and today I did rocker six times (walk – stop- backing up – canter (3 on left canter lead and 3 on right canter lead) – trot). I just slowed down the canter and then the horse just stepped down from canter to trot without any problem. I succeed every time. With advanced search function I found also the description of Dr. Deb how to introduce trot and canter in a schooling session:
“The way I use trot in a schooling session is this: I take it in sips. Warm up at walk and bend, bend, bend, halt, back up, expand the circle, and bend the other way again. Then trot, and I expect the horse to respond crisply; go one 20M circle, reduce to 10M, expand the circle, drift, straighten, change bends, ride the new 20M circle once around, transition to very active walk on lightest possible aids. Then walk, bend, expand circle, perform turn on forehand, drop to buckle. Then repeat the whole sequence going the other way. Vary on the third bout by performing short leg-yields left and right down the center line at walk, upon reaching the far end transition to trot and boogie across the diagonal, looking especially for down transition at the opposite end on lightest possible aids. Then walk serpentine with 8M bends down center line, drop to buckle upon reaching the far end. Then transition to canter, emphasis on getting the horse to go as slow as possible without dropping the gait; 20M circle working down to 15, go around the 15 twice and then down transition to very lively trot on lightest possible aids. Take no more than 15 trot steps and transition up to canter again on lead opposite the one you had at first; go 20 M, 15M twice, then transition down to very lively walk on lightest possible aids.”
I shall do something like that.
Dr. Deb please apology me for bothering you with something that is already written down. Best Igor.

nejc
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 30th, 2008
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 31
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 23rd, 2014 11:46 am
 Quote  Reply 
Dr. Deb

I made a program (see below) out of your schooling session to clearly understand it and to put  trot and canter within my routine.  The exercises that are underlined are unclear for me. I would like to know what exactly is meant or how they fit in. Thank you. Best Igor
TROT IN A SCHOOLING SESSION (I take it in sips.)
(1 WALK) Warm up and bend, bend, bend, halt, back up, expand the circle, and bend the other way.
(2 TROT) Then trot, and I expect the horse to respond crisply;
      (2a) go one 20M circle,
      (2b) reduce to 10M,
      (2c) expand the circle,   drift,    straighten,    change bends,
      (2d) ride the new 20M circle once around,
      (2e) transition to very active  walk on lightest possible aids.
 
(3 WALK)  3a OR 3b
    (3a) Then walk, bend, expand circle, perform turn on forehand, drop to buckle.
OR
    (3b)  Vary  by performing short leg-yields left and right down the center line at  walk
 (4 TROT)  Transition to trot and boogie across the diagonal, looking especially for 
(5 WALK)  down transition at the opposite end on lightest possible aids.
 THEN REPEAT THE WHOLE SEQUENCE GOING THE OTHER WAY.
 (6 WALK)  Walk serpentine with 8M bends down center line, drop to buckle upon reaching the far end.
(7 CANTER)  transition to canter, emphasis on getting the horse to go as slow as possible;
         (7a) 20M circle working down to
         (7b) 15M, go around the 15 twice and then down transition to very lively
 (8 TROT) trot on lightest possible aids. Take no more than 15 trot steps and transition up to

(9 CANTER) canter again on lead opposite the one you had at first;
         (9a) go 20 M,
         (9b) 15M twice,
 (10 WALK)  then transition down to very lively  walk on lightest possible aids.
THIS CONSTITUTES AN ENTIRE WORKOUT MINUS THE WARM-DOWN
(11 WALK)  which I would often do either as a short "trail ride" around the property -- i.e. go outside the arena or work area and ride up the driveway, around the pens or whatever,

(12 WALK) then return to work area, dismount, and have the horse perform one or two plie bows.
(13 END OF SESSION) Then remove the tack and let him loose.
 

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3254
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 23rd, 2014 01:15 pm
 Quote  Reply 
One thing at a time, Igor. Do you mean to tell me you don't understand the English word 'bend' as used in a horseback riding context? -- Dr. Deb

nejc
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 30th, 2008
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 31
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 23rd, 2014 05:09 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Dr. DEB, thank you for your reply.
I understand the word “bend”, I just assume that under the phrase bend, bend, bend, there are a many more exercises and that under the phrase bend the other way there is probably the change of direction  and that the point (1) is in reality much more detailed program. This part I have established pretty good and I do many exercises in walk and I spent most of my ride in this part. To this part I add rockers to trot and canter and a few ordinary circles and ridings around arena in trot and canter. Till now I never did any leg yielding, shoulder-in or haunches-in  or half-pass or circling in and out in any other gate except walk.
About the phrase change bends at the end of point (2c). I assume that there are two bends and that (2d) is circle in the same direction as circles before. Probably so, because there is an instruction to repeat points 2, 3, 4, and 5 in other direction (but probably not point (1) because it is, as I understand, already extensively done in both directions). About the phrase boogie across the diagonal  (point (4)I really have no idea what it means.
Best, Igor

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3254
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 23rd, 2014 10:16 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Igor, excuse the American idiom. 'Boogie' is an old hippie-dippie term from the late 1960's-early 1970's that evokes the general subculture that emanated from the rock band 'The Grateful Dead', as in "Keep On Truckin'". That in turn harks back to the 1940's Swing Band Era and the beginnings of Rockabilly where you get 'boogie-woogie,' i.e. as in the Andrews Sisters famous 'The Boogie-Woogie Bugle Boy of Company B'. And in more recent times that's been picked up and modified in Country-Western and Country-Pop, as in 'The Boot Scoot Boogie.'

So, 'to boogie' means to dance, particularly, to dance in a lighthearted and forward-moving way, and thus 'to boogie across the diagonal' means to ride the long diagonal of the arena in that same way.

As to all your steps and protocols, Igor -- they are of no avail, and I never meant anyone to do with my instructions what you have done. Because what you are trying to do is what all the weak-minded people do, whether it be in Parelli-ism where they tell you 'exactly the steps to take' or whether it be in some religion where they tell you 'exactly what you have to do in order to be saved': you are trying to flatten a beautiful, three-dimensional reality into an ugly METHOD.

So your protocol will be good for exactly....one ride.

After that, it must change.

It must change every day and with every circumstance. The measure of whether someone does (or does not) have the ability to train horses is exactly this: that the talented person learns the PRINCIPLE of the thing, and then MODIFIES HIS PARTICULAR ACTIONS TO SUIT THE PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES.

You learn the individual movements or exercises.

Then when you're in the arena, you link them together, one after another.

You endeavor to link them smoothly, so that they segue smoothly, and so that going from the one to the other is easy and obvious to the horse.

But you link them differently every time you ride. Probably the greatest master of this to ever live was Nuno Oliveira, but I would also say my own teacher Ray Hunt understood it perfectly, too.

This is the great challenge that the weak-minded people are unable to meet, because they refuse to do the work necessary to be creative enough. This is why they remain weak-minded, because they do not exercise their minds in this way. -- Dr. Deb

nejc
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 30th, 2008
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 31
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Jan 24th, 2014 01:32 am
 Quote  Reply 
Dr. Deb, thank you for your latest reply.
My horse is now really dancing while we are walking. He enormously enjoys all kind of bending and moving and we smoothly vary all kinds of movements. For building blocks I take your precise descriptions, warnings and recommendations but I can remember how clumsy I was in the beginning and that every session brings something new. Many times I had to go back to your texts and made a step back and many times a new feeling of a certain move gives me a totally new meaning of an exercise. So I could say that my progress was not so much through new and new exercises but through new and new feelings of the exercises I already knew.  My “sessions” are mostly done outside in nature. We are circling on meadows, doing serpentines between the trees in forest, leg yielding on forest roads etc. I visit an arena may be only once per week because I have one hour ride to get there and one hour to get back. I do it because I am curios what it looks like to do some “sessions” in controlled environment.
To start some new exercises in trot and center I assume that it would help me to sketch some protocol which I would newer rigidly apply and which I would develop through time depending on how it suits to my horse and to me, exactly as you described and in the same way I did it in the past. It is more a reminder and starting position than anything else. Description of your “session” is very informative for me, especially how little trot and how little kenter you are doing and what kind of exercises you are doing within those gaits. This will serve me as an orientation. So you mustn’t worry too much, my horse is telling me that  we are doing just fine till now and I hope for the same in future. And most credit for that goes to you. Without your texts I would be nowhere.  I am in no hurry, I have no aims and in the same time I enormously enjoy doing things your way, because my horse is telling me that it is a good way. Now and then I need some guidance.  I know the name Parelli from internet but I do not follow him and I do not know what he teaches. I stick to your forum and your Birdie Book. It is already enough staff to read.
Best, Igor
PS. Everybody begins as weak minded on the field or task he is not familiar with because that is the nature of learning. Teachers are supposed to assist the process to overcome that because of their vast knowledge and because they already successfully went through all kind of mistakes and because they supposedly muster their own weak-mindedness. 

Vicki
Member
 

Joined: Sun Nov 9th, 2014
Location:  
Posts: 1
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Nov 9th, 2014 09:09 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Hi Dr. Deb,

I've been following your post on raising the shoulder and head twirling but then realized it was written in 2008. You mentioned a link to go to for more info on the subject but that link is apparently no longer active. Is there another current link to that info? Thank you, Vicki

Mike Zimmerman
Member
 

Joined: Mon Aug 5th, 2013
Location:  
Posts: 10
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2014 06:27 am
 Quote  Reply 
The hyphen is missing in the original link. http://eclectic-horseman.com

nejc
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 30th, 2008
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 31
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2014 12:02 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Dr.Deb
Does something (like very educational video for evaluating human posture: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqtjh7_posture-evaluation_lifestyle) exists for evaluating horse posture?
Igor

nejc
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 30th, 2008
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 31
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2014 12:03 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Dr.Deb
Does something (like very educational video for evaluating human posture: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqtjh7_posture-evaluation_lifestyle) exists for evaluating horse posture?
Igor

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3254
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2014 01:38 pm
 Quote  Reply 
It may, Igor; you would probably have to ask a chiropractor -- basically they would be the only ones interested. You could invent any number of 'graphical' ways to quantify postural misalignments; what I have done is just use simple photography, i.e. take photos of the forelimbs from the front and also of the horse's spine by standing in the bed of a pickup truck and shooting the camera down onto the horse's spine, while an assistant makes sure that the horse is standing perfectly square and has its head directly in front of the center of the chest.

There are some aspects to your query that resemble what people seem to want to do with saddle fitting -- they want a computer program or some kind of numerical way to "know" if their saddle fits or how much pressure is where, etc. When in fact the one and only way to fit a saddle is by feel and by eye. And that is also the one and only way to straighten a horse: you feel how crooked he stands and moves, and then you follow the proper procedure for helping him to go straighter. -- Dr. Deb


 Current time is 10:23 am
Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2   




Powered by WowBB 1.7 - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez