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Brandy
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| Posted: Sat Aug 1st, 2009 02:13 pm |
Dr. Deb, if you ever get some data that would allow correction equations to be developed for the weight tape, I'd sure love to see that. I weigh my horses every six months and then compare that to the weight tape. They are on the big side. The weight tape is off by 150-200 lbs every time. My suspicion is that the weight tape overestimates the small horses and underestimates the big ones, but does a pretty good job in the middle. I've wanted a data set to develop the equations with for a long time......my puny example of 5 horses isn't enough.
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DrDeb
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| Posted: Sat Aug 1st, 2009 08:15 pm |
Yes, Brandy, that's my feeling also. Where it is an experienced horseman or an equine vet, I think their 'eyeball' estimate is often better than the weight tape in the case of the larger horses.
Maybe I'll start a thread just for the purpose of trying to develop a 'correction algorithm' for weight tapes sometime later this fall. Meanwhile, for the present study, I pretty much have to go with the weights as they are reported, and simply call that 'variation' in the data.
Mark, if you see this -- I forgot to ask you, are any of the horses in the last large batch you sent unsound currently, or have any had some kind of chronic trouble, i.e. specifically: ringbone, sidebone, 'flat, sore feet', or navicular?
Thanks -- Dr. Deb
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Charlotte
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| Posted: Sun Aug 2nd, 2009 09:40 pm |
A couple more for you Dr Deb if they are any help:
Z:
Swedish warmblood/TB, 7 yrs 15.2hh, gelding
Cannon bone: 8 1/4 inches
Width of hoof: 5 1/2 inches
Guesstimated weight: 1100 lbs
Barefoot, generally sound but can peck over stoney ground
A:
Welsh Section A, 5 yrs 11hh, gelding
Cannon bone: 6 1/4 inches
Width of hoof: 4 inches
Guesstimated weight: 440 lbs
Barefoot, sound on all surfaces
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Linda
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| Posted: Mon Aug 3rd, 2009 12:03 am |
13 year old, Half Arab/ Half Tennesee Walking Horse, Mare
B-T 8 inches
Wall to wall hoof, just trimmed in preparation of shoeing 4.75 inches
Weight 1200 lbs. , weight tape
Is shod at all times, removed shoes prior to foaling 5 years ago this past March, turned out not to be a good thing for her, was very tender footed, and hooves chipped excessively.
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Linda
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| Posted: Mon Aug 3rd, 2009 03:23 am |
I just realized I did'nt give my mares height. 16 hands
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GoldPony
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| Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 01:10 am |
One more:
13 yr. old Oldenburg/Thoroughbred mare
Ht.- 15.1 hds.
Bone - 8"
Wt. - 1000 lbs by tape
Hoof - 5 1/8 "
Shod and sound.
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DrDeb
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| Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 01:52 am |
Thank you, ladies -- your efforts are very much appreciated. Anybody else out there with bigger-sized horses that they are using in some riding discipline, i.e. part-draft or draft crosses, and the more "Olympic-sized" WBs? Hoping to hear from y'all. This study is going beautifully, by the way -- results to be posted this fall, so you still have time to contribute. -- Dr. Deb
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Mark
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| Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 02:23 pm |
Deb: The batch of data that I sent last week was from a group of horses in Kentucky. Unfortunately, I am back in Pennsylvania. Horses 1-11 and 17-21 can be remeasured, as I will be taking another trip to the Bluegrass State at the end of this month, and they reside year-round at that farm. Horses 12-16 are nearer your neck of the woods, as these horses were flown to Kentucky for the vaulting test-event for the World Equestrian Games (WEG) but are now back on the West Coast. Unfortunately, ever seeing them again is improbable, unless maybe it's next fall at the WEG. You'll notice, that the one horse you specifically asked about, the 12-year-old Percheron, is one of the "traveling" horses. Because of my unfamiliarity with Horses 12-16, I cannot speak of their soundness.
But I do have some additional information on some of the other horses:
Horse 1: ringbone; significantly cold-backed, enough so that it hinders his ability to work well, unsure of what treatment modalities have been used to ameliorate pain other than proper saddle-fitting
Horse 4: arthritic changes in several joints, particularly fore ankles and hocks; not sound for everyday use
Horse 5: cold splint, nothing to suggest chronic pain
Horse 6: chronic arthritis in hocks; requires intraarticular injections for continued use as a high-level hunter (3'6 fences)
Horse 10: chronic arthritis in hocks; requires intervention for continued use as a low-level show hunter (2'6" fences)
Horse 20: arthritic changes in ankle; requires intervention for continued moderate-work use as a school horse (ridden three or four times weekly, usually not jumping)
Horse 21: pelvic-bone fracture as a younger horse; does not seem to have changed movement, per owner
Here's a plan that I might be able to carry out when I am in Kentucky. I have access to portable electronic scales there. Assuming my workplace is agreeable, I bet I could borrow this and take it to my friend's farm, where I can remeasure all of the horses with the weight tape and then also get an electronic reading. Again, I wouldn't be able to get all 21 horses, but probably several of the ones mentioned. I will try to make arrangements. If all goes well, I could have numbers to you by the last week of August.
I hope this information helps. Mark
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DrDeb
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| Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 09:23 pm |
Absolutely tremendous, Mark. The business with the portable scale will go a long way toward helping us figure out how to write a "correction algorithm" for weight tapes.
Also: I am specially grateful for the soundness/unsoundness information. Chronically unsound horses are of special value because they go on our chart as red dots. The idea is to see if the red dots have a tendency to cluster anywhere within the total sample.
Anyone else having access to horses in the weight range over 1200 lbs. is specially welcome to post here, with my continuing thanks. -- Dr. Deb
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GoldPony
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| Posted: Fri Aug 7th, 2009 08:32 pm |
I know you need big ole' warmbloods, but there are none available so I thought I would add one more pony of a different type.
5 yr. old mare -cross of reg. Spanish Mustang/BLM mustang
Ht. 14.1
Wt. 710 by tape
Bone- 7 5/8"
Hoof- 5"
Barefoot and sound, ridden regularly.
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ozgaitedhorses
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17th, 2009 10:54 pm |
Better late than never....
1.
10 year old mare; Standardbred
B-T circumference: 20.3cm
fore: 12.1cm (wall to wall)
height: 155cm
weight: 560kg (weight tape)
toes in at the front; shod while she was racing (pacer), had at least two bowed tendons during that time; barefoot for the last 5 years with one instance of bursitis/tenosynovitis, but otherwise sound
2.
10 year old mare; 1/2 Arab, 1/2 Peruvian Paso
B-T circumference: 18.0cm
fore: 10.8cm (wall to wall)
height: 145cm
weight: 480kg (weight tape)
never shod, sound
3.
4.5 year old gelding; 1/4 Arab, 3/4 Peruvian Paso (son of horse #2)
B-T circumference: 18.1cm
fore: 11.0cm (wall to wall)
height: 140cm
weight: 420kg (weight tape)
never shod, sound so far, but we'll see...
Cheers,
Manu
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AngelaT
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 07:21 am |
Don't know if you are still compiling data, but we had to wait on the next farrier visit. It was an interesting exercise anyway and we'll be looking forward to your article. This has also inspired me to get a scale weight on the horses.
1) Morgan/Percheron mare, 9 yo
B-T 9 in
5.75 in wall to wall
1300 lb taped
Sound, shod
2) TB gelding, 21 yo
B-T 8.5 in
4.5 sole to sole
1000 lb taped
sound only with corrective shoeing, history of distal P1 fracture left front
3) Belgian/QH mare, 9 yo
B-T 8 5/8 in
5.75 in wall to wall
1200 lb taped
Barefoot, sound
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Marne
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 03:53 am |
Hope this isn't too late to be of any help...
#1 horse is 30 years old, Egyptian bred Arabian, and a gelding
Cannon bone is 8 1/2 "
width of foot from outside of wall to other outside of wall is 4 3/4", his feet are not round.
I estimate his WT at about 950#...we have nothing but a WT tape for cows. HE is 15 hands 3 " tall barefoot with just trimmed feet.
He is entirely sound,...having not worn shoes now for over 15 years now. He is not ridden very often but when we do, he gets along fine on our roads which are all blacktop and some gravel.
#2 horse is 11 years old, halter bred Quarter horse, mare
Cannon bone is 7 1/2 "
width of barefoot estimation as she is currently shod is 4 1/2 " Her feet are not round.
I estimate her WT at 1000#, again no WT tape but the one we use on our cows, and she is 15 hand 1 1/2 " tall.
She was sound barefoot all summer here on our black top roads and gravel ( it is the only place we have to ride here) till it rained for weeks here and her soles got so soft that she became ouchy and the walls wore way too short for riding on this kinda of surface , so i had her shod in the front feet only. She is perfectly sound now.
I bought this mare last Oct,,knowing she had one front foot that was a slight club...which over winter really got a lot worse. I had the vet and my farrier work on her...and after some chiro work from the vet and my farrier trimming her often, she has remained sound and there is never more a few degrees angle difference in her front feet now. I also got a ATH saddle for her ( and me! ) as i think most of her foot troubles were caused by ill fitting saddles in her past. Her back and shoulders and knees were pretty messed up in addition to her foot but after my vet working on her, the shoer trimming her often and riding her with the ATH saddle that fits her wonderfully , you would not know she was the same horse, looking at her back AND her foot.
Very interesting reading all this. Marne
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Carey
Member
| Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2009 04:33 pm |
I've been meaning to respond to this-- hope I am not too late!!
Colby- 22yrs Belgium Draft/ TB 16.2 hands I don't have a tape-- but he has got to be 1400 lbs.
Barefoot sound- somewhat retired Cross country/ dressage horse-- still trail riding
Bone 11 inches
Hoof 5 3/4 inches
Was sound all of his life- barefoot for 4 years
JR 20 yrs TB retired Hunter now kids horse 16.2 hands 1150lbs best guess
bone 9 1/4 inches
Hoof 4 3/4 inches- barefoot
no history of injury that we know of-- he was raced
Finnagan 10 yrs Hanoverian 16.2 hands 1200lbs
bone 9 inches
hoof 5.25 inches
barefoot-- this horse has had issures mainly stifle
Laura 8 yrs grade TB 15.2 1000lbs
bone 9 inches
hoof 4.75 inches
sound barefoot
Ruby QH 10 years 14.1 hands 1000 shes pregnant-- normally a little lighter
bone 8 inches
hoof 4.5 inches
sound barefoot -- she did pull a rear suspensory before me
Cocoa 3 years Registered half arabian/ percheron 15.2 hands 1250
Bone 9 inches
hoof 5.5 inches
barefoot sound
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Jacquie
Member
| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2009 08:24 am |
Sorry its so late, hope its still in time to be useful to you:
Fox
Irish Draught x Appaloosa 16:2hh 9 inches bone, 6.5inches hood (shod), 1200lbs with measure tape. 8 years old and sound so far. Schooled and hacked, plus ocasional dressage competitions for fun.
Sunny Boy
Welsh x ? 12:3hh 7 inches of bone, 4.5inches hoof (unshod) 664 lbs with measure tape. 14 years old and sound so far. Schooled and hacked
Storm
14:2hh Lipizzaner pure bred 5 inches hoof (shod), 9 inches of bone, 1050lb with measure tape 15 years old and arthritic hocks,plus luxating patella problem inherited from previous poor training/riding giving rise to extreme weakness. Otherwise sound. Schooled and hacked plus ocasional dressage competitions for fun.
Whisper
15:2hh 8 inches bone, 5.5 inch hoof (shod) , 1033lb. 12 year old Connemara x TB sound so far. Showjumped, schooled and hacked.
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