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David Genadek
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Joined: Sun May 13th, 2007
Location: Spring Valley, Minnesota USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2015 03:54 am
Bruce I am taking orders and we are a few weeks away from them being in stock.
Shapleigh
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2015 04:05 pm
Thank you for the visuals. This confirms what I thought was occurring regarding the direction of force produced by the billets, and certainly cleared up my misconceptions about using the point billet and last billet of a multi-billet English saddle. I was thinking it would be more like the triangle rigging of the western saddle, which is one of the reasons I invested in a multi-billet saddle. And thanks to Dave's educational video and this forum, my saddle does have wide the wide panels.

I did experiment last night with my English saddle using the very last two billet positions which are equivalent to the positions in your Equitation saddle, Dave. I did notice a difference in the movement of my pony for the better as well as a better centered seat.

Now another question if I may: If the tendency of the girth is to fall in front of the placement of the centered billets, does using an anatomical (curved) girth alter direction of the force of the billet? I ask this because when using the 'centered' billet options, the saddle did migrate forward a bit after riding. I have to note that my pony is broad- backed and mutton withered (and well sprung in the ribs).
~Shari

David Genadek
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Location: Spring Valley, Minnesota USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 28th, 2015 10:20 pm
Shari, It is hard for me to comment with out seeing the particulars of the a given situation. I design saddles to sit more forward so the notion if it being forward does not bother me. I view those curved girths as a gimmick whose basis is the notion that the girth should be in the "girth groove" so it is secured to the Sternum. You can see in the photo attached that it would be pretty difficult to attache the girth to the sternum. Why would you ever want to place a girth in an area where there is a ton of movement?

Attachment: sternum2.jpg


David Genadek
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Posted: Mon Sep 28th, 2015 10:22 pm
Lois the 14th understood girths.

Attachment: LoisXIVfrance1673.jpg


Shapleigh
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Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2015 03:44 pm
I am not trying to place the girth where 'all the action is', it just seems to migrate to that area even when the billets are not parallel to the girth groove, but behind it. I actually have not tried a curved girth at this time.
However, I was researching historical photos these past few days and noted the wide girths used, such as in drawings of Baucher. Those girths are also placed fairly far behind the elbow. I am contemplating trying a multi-girth system, like the one pictured below, or those used with some side saddles. It looks like the Lois the 14th girth is the best from both of these types of girth systems. I will have to continue to try different ones to see what works best with my pony's build and current saddle.
~Shari

Attachment: greyhorsesaddled.jpg


David Genadek
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Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2015 04:35 pm
Some horses have a pear shape that makes keeping the girth back near impossible. Mules are bad this way so they came up with a packer cinch.

Attachment: xcinch2.jpg


David Genadek
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Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2015 04:41 pm
Here is what we use around here for the classical equitation saddles. We did a roper style English girth.

Attachment: english_girths.jpg


snowdenfarm
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Joined: Tue Mar 18th, 2008
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 28
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2015 02:04 pm
Hi, Dave. Will I need a long or short girth with my new XXXXXXXX saddle?

Thanks,

Cheryl
SE PA

Note from Dr. Deb: Please avoid mentioning saddles by brand name in this Forum. If it's absolutely necessary to mention the brand name in order to tender a sensible query, please write to Dave off list. Thanks -- Dr. Deb

LynnF
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Joined: Mon Aug 4th, 2008
Location: San Marcos, Texas USA
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Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2015 10:22 pm
Because of the mule's "pear" shape, many mule riders keep the rear girth tighter than the front girth. Of course the 2 girths are connected and this keeps the rear girth from slipping back and the front girth from slipping forward.
JTB
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Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2019 08:42 am
Bump as these are great images to be studied. :-)
Getting my eye in for saddle fit again.
DrDeb
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Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2019 09:24 am
Judy, and everybody, I agree this thread is a wonderful contribution by our Institute friend Dave Genadek.

Recently he and I had some extensive telephone conversations around a series of three articles I was writing for Eclectic Horseman. I always check in with Dave when I'm onto this subject.

The three articles are all published by this point and if you're interested in saddle fit, I'd suggest you go get them from Eclectic Horseman mercantile/back issues, that is if you aren't already a subscriber.

Cheers -- Dr. Deb

JTB
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Posted: Wed May 1st, 2019 07:48 am
Excellent, my sub has finished so will check the back issues. :-)
JTB
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Posted: Thu Jun 6th, 2019 07:05 pm
Hi Dr Deb and All,

I found this on You Tube and I hope it is okay to share Dr Deb as it has a few things on saddle history that really make it clear on what we are looking at when we look at Saddles today and trying to choose the right one for our horses.

I haven't gotten the back issues yet but I have the Inner Horseman on Saddle fit. :-)

If the weather holds I am off to play with shims today as I have a few questions about them but need to go see if I can answer my own questions first.

Kind Regards
Judy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aUre4i2-Js
DrDeb
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Posted: Fri Jun 7th, 2019 01:31 am
A session with our Institute friend Dave Genadek is always going to be empowering for you.

More: Get the last three issues of The Eclectic Horseman, in which I give the history, the background, the terminology, the anatomy, and practical help on how to choose and fit a saddle for your particular horse. -- Dr. Deb

David Genadek
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Joined: Sun May 13th, 2007
Location: Spring Valley, Minnesota USA
Posts: 426
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Posted: Thu Jul 4th, 2019 10:39 pm
Here are a couple of videos that explain the concept of cantilevering. This is a really important concept in the world of saddle fitting. I believe you should place rider forward and cantilever the rider's weight backward over the entire rib cage. Others believe the saddle should be placed further back and the pressure should be cantilevered forward. The third group believes the saddle should have even pressure throughout the length of the saddle. Depending on which of these concepts a person believes in, different ideas of how and where to place billets will emerge.

https://youtu.be/u-uni3D2wNQ

https://youtu.be/jsEvAUNdhpI



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