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Aloha
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Posted: Thu Feb 12th, 2015 06:29 am
snowdenfarm wrote:
3. Video is of great help to us visual learners
I think that is an important point.


Not sure that everything isn't already out there though. My old trainer always said, when pressed to write a book on training, that the cookbook for YOUR horse needs to be written by YOU. In other words, you can't use a step by step recipe as everyone and every horse is different. Once you have and understand the ingredients however, then you can create many things. That's when the beauty of it comes to life.

The cost of producing such videos must be enormous.
Susanna
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Posted: Thu Feb 12th, 2015 01:14 pm
Hello! Spring greetings from North! This is my first post here, I've enjoyed reading the forum very much. Thank you all, especially Dr Deb!

This might be a bit of a dilettante's answer, but I buy lots and lots of DVDs by master riders because I enjoy watching them ride and work with horses. I have more riding DVDs than I have musical Cd's.I'm interested not only in the finished horse, but how they build the work from scratch. I know I can't copy them (have tried that and failed), but I try to keep the images in my mind when I ride. I would love to be able to emulate the feel they have.
CorynKiefer
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Posted: Mon Apr 6th, 2015 02:41 am
I too watch DVDs, read books and articles. But where the hunger for additional information in a clinic context comes from is understanding how a person gets from A to B,... how to successfully apply concepts (including incremental application). As an example, as I read through (highlight, re-read, work with my horse,... return to the article, "True Collection".... and back to my horse,... etc,...), I find that in the 'practical application' of the concepts, as viewed from the back of my horse, I believe that I am applying concepts as I intend to,.. and I will practice accordingly. But I ride mostly alone (and am a student of new concepts,... practicing with my horse)... and then someone will happen-by, take note and will offer some well intentioned feed back,.... "Do you realize that you are doing this and consequently your horse is doing this....?" And what I hear is that I have been (unwittingly) NOT applying the concepts as I thought I was,... And as I reflect on this, I realize that I did not really know what to look for as evidence of successful application of a concept,...(in progress, as I am riding).

So, perhaps a clinic context DVD that focuses on "how to" apply concepts e.g. what does it look like (while riding) to 'effectively' ask/invite a horse to release his topline and invite the coil of the loin? When viewed from the ground, this can be seen,... but from the horse's back, (when first learning the concept) it is not easy to see (or feel,... the nuances of the beginning muscle changes). What does incremental success look like when beginning to 'train' or 're-train' these concepts of collection,... what is evidence that things are not going as they should and what other methods should be considered etc,.... a life time of concepts/learning.

Today, we (many of us) do not have the opportunity to ride in an environment where there are like-minded people/instructors,... and active, live feedback,... as in the schools of yesteryear,...

The point here is many people ride alone,... and for those who do ride with others, those who want to ride with a reverence for the horse are fewer still,... so experimentation occurs in a bit of a vacuum,...

There are very few DVDs (that I have found) that actually show 'how' to get from a concept to its successful application,... that show the nuances of progress (as viewed through the lens of the rider),... recognizing that the nuances are many.

This is not to say, that a clinic based 'how to' DVD is a substitution for "try" and consistent work, observation, "re-try", but it would help (really help) to know that one is at least headed to Rome,... on the many roads to Rome.

Thank-you Dr Deb. for your dedication and life work to the pursuit and sharing of knowledge,.... ultimately for the well-being of the horse. Thank-you
DrDeb
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Posted: Mon Apr 6th, 2015 11:41 pm
OK, I hear what you-all are saying. Now I need to ask: to which of our RECOMMENDED clinicians have you actually gone in the past two years?

In other words: if you want and need live instruction, do you actively seek it out?

Our RECOMMENDED list of clinicians includes (and a reminder, these are the only names you may mention in this Forum):

Harry Whitney

Buck Brannaman

Bryan Neubert & Son

Joe Wolter

Melanie Smith-Taylor

Tom Curtin

Ty Weber

Josh Nichol

Lendon Gray

George Morris

Mike Schaffer

How people get on our recommended list is:

1. They understand not only techniques but the actual meaning that the techniques have to the horse; this is what 'deep work' is.

2. They have no interest in a personal fan club. They do not self-promote beyond letting people know where and when their services are available. As Ray Hunt used to say: "It doesn't matter to me whether you people are here or not. I would have been working these colts anyway."

3. They charge reasonable rates to riders and pay their sponsors' expenses.

4. They treat every participant equally. There are no 'cliques', 'in crowds', 'franchises', 'special lists' or 'certifications' -- every participant has equal access to the teacher, and every participant is encouraged to ask questions.

5. They go out of their way to be good teachers. While all have been students themselves, having had teachers of their own, they do not mindlessly parrot a guru, but instead offer students their own best interpretation of what they themselves have learned, not only from their teacher(s) but from their own experience.

6. Their horses are content and capable in their work; they do not become frightened or tense when called upon to work. Their horses are their highest recommendation.

 

Brandy
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Posted: Tue Apr 7th, 2015 08:32 am
I needed a lot more help than DVDs could provide; I went to Buck for the first time five years ago and go to two or three clinics (with my horse) every year. The more I learn, the more I realize there is to know (that I don't know yet) and the more I want to know. That there is no end but always help along the way was one of the first and most exciting things I learned from Buck.

As far as DVDs, I have some but don't watch them a lot. I use them for reminders of what I need to go outside and do with my horse, and to a certain degree to get close and repeated observations of tiny details that are hard to catch in real time.
Kuhaylan Heify
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Posted: Tue Apr 7th, 2015 10:13 am
Dear Brandy: You're right about the being able to watch bits of the tapes over and over to pickup details..I've had luck getting sidekick to relax and focus doing Bucks ,'teach them not to get their feet stuck so they don't kill themselves in the trailer,' exercise..
best wishes
Bruce Peek
Capparella
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Posted: Tue Apr 7th, 2015 04:29 pm
I am new to this school and to horses. I did not know about these clinicians (except Buck) before, so I have plans to audit every one I can as several are coming to a state nearby this year. Since I am new, I do not feel I will be qualified to have my own horse for several years. While the ideal would be to participate, at least I can audit them.

I feel there is no substitute for real life time with a clinician. Clinician videos are great reinforcers in between times.

Regarding the comment on working alone, it may be helpful to video yourself. I have rigged a tripod and videoed my lessons with my phone. I then convert to DVD and watch on a large screen. This has been immensely helpful, as I can see "outside" of myself and connect it to what I was feeling when engaging in a movement. I can also see more of the horse. In the beginning it seems difficult to take in all the foot movement, the neck, the eye etc. at once. I am gradually getting better at taking in more visual information and feeling more of the horse. So when my teacher tells me I am late on a release or I have not set the horse up well to untrack I can see the opening I missed.
JulietMacie
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Posted: Tue Apr 7th, 2015 10:38 pm
I audited a Buck clinic last September and got a tremendous amount of learning out of it! In fact, I was even wondering, as I sat watching, asking questions and taking notes, if I was able to get more out of auditing than I would from participating! I plan to go to a Bettina Drummond clinic (again as an auditor) later this month and hopefully to a Bryan Neubert clinic this summer. I just wish more of the recommended clinicians came to New England so I could attend clinics oftener and someday bring my horse.
--Juliet
sumosha
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Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2015 01:48 am
Hi Juliet!
Mike Schaffer is on the East Coast (PA / NJ area). I'm not sure of his clinic schedule, but I have actually been doing Skype lessons with him! It's pretty neat - I take a video of me riding and/or doing ground work, and we conference call over the internet to discuss the video. I'm finding it incredibly productive, not to mention far less stressful (I can video and ride whenever I want). I've been working with him for the last 6 months, I've noticed tremendous results, and am excited about my future work with him.
JulietMacie
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Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2015 11:24 pm
Hi Sumosha

thanks for your suggestion! I've actually been considering embarking on video lessons with Mike Schaffer for a while now. I have to figure out a process so I can do it with minimal technical and logistical headaches, but I think I might go for it this summer. --Juliet
JaneW
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Posted: Thu Apr 9th, 2015 04:28 pm
Dr. Deb:
In answer to your question, I've been to Buck and Harry and one other person not on your list. Twenty years ago I was quite the clinic junkie - now I find riding in one GOOD clinic a year with someone I trust gives me plenty to work on.
sumosha
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Posted: Thu Apr 9th, 2015 08:35 pm
Hi Juliet,

Nowadays regular digital cameras are sufficient for up to 30 minutes video, which usually is enough time for our lessons because we pause, slow down, step through, and discuss. I bought a Canon Elph 130 and a quality SD card (class 10) for less than $150. I record at the low quality setting (640x480), which is good enough with decent lighting. Higher quality won't get more than 10 mins of video with my barebones hardware setup.

Also, I bought a gorillapod tripod. They are flexible tripods where you can attach the legs around tree branches (or posts in the arena). This setup works beautifully for me so I can tape without assistance.

My biggest problem is staying in the picture frame! Sometimes I set up cones at the boundaries of the screen and then just ride within them.

Hope that helps. Good luck! Also, I love the threads you've been driving. I've been learning a lot from your journey. :)
CorynKiefer
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Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2015 06:42 pm
Dr Deb,

In the last 2 years I have attended 2 Josh Nichol clinics (and will be 3 at the end of this year). Josh is an excellent clinician,...not only a gifted horseman but also a gifted educator. I have learned much from him and look forward to learning more,…

However, after a couple of months of working/practicing the concepts that I learn from his clinics, I begin to question myself about whether I am still doing things correctly. And without the feedback (or reference to 'see'/review) to validate what I think/hope I am doing, I get bogged down,... It is in this context that I go back and make reference to DVDs (like Buck Brannaman),... but I find the DVDs (generally speaking) help more with 'keeping me pointed in a direction,... where I want to get to,... rather than providing the information of this is 'how' you get to where you want to go).

The idea of using a video camera is good,... and making use of it right after the clinic, while concepts are fresh and clear,... where I can self-check for correctness over the passage of time,...

Still, in response to Dr Deb's first questions (post) from February 03,… what would help me become a ‘relatively’ proficient and independent horsewoman,…

Well first and foremost,… I would want to take a clinic with Dr Deb,… which may or may not be possible,… (oh Santa,… please,… :-) ),

And because I make regular use of DVDs (for reference),… I know that I would continue to learn ‘more better’ with DVDs (or Youtube lectures) that help to explain concepts,…how to get from Pt A to Pt B,… and that help explain what correct looks like (and/or incorrect looks like),… and “why” this is correct/incorrect. Likely a clinic context given that there are different people and horses each with their own unique ‘ways’,… would provide for good examples but there are other possibilities. For example, I found Dr Deb’s lectures (You-Tube) from the George Morris clinic *very* informing,… and because of the visual references,… the biomechanical examples I now “see” (can visualize) the movement (spine, withers) of my horse differently ( (in part) jaw flexions (ala Baucher),… or what Buck Brannaman refers to as picking up a “soft feel” as well as the concept of raising/lifting the withers),… I now have a clear picture of what these concepts mean (look like) and of what both correct/incorrect looks like. Very few clinicians teach this way (use these kinds of visual references,… explain things thoroughly),…. Very helpful in my learning....on the path of becoming a proficient and independent horsewoman. I welcome more of that kind of instruction.
Thank-you!!
ilam
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2015 12:43 am
I have ridden only with Buck in the last 5 years, rode once with Tom Curtin before that, which is what got me starting in riding in clinics. Recently I audited another clinician that is not on the recommended list (because it was close to my home), I had just seen him present at the Legacy of Legends and was curious why he is not on the list.

I have books and quite a number of DVDs, because "immersion therapy" is my thing, but while those things help with snippets at times and with some theoretical understanding, there is no substitute for the live experience of riding in a clinic with the right instructor. As I get in a wee bit deeper each time, the wealth of information gained gets wider. A funny thing always happens, while there are a lot of people in Buck's clinics from all walks of life and all levels of experience, somehow I get to see and learn exactly what I need to see and learn at each particular time. It just always works out that way.

Then there is this other thing I get out of clinics, it was also there are the Legacy of Legends (not from everyone that was there, but from the majority of them there), and I cannot describe in words what this is. It comes from the people you meet there that are there for the horse only, and I cannot get enough of it. I grew up in a different world, I still work in a different world, and that world needs a whole lot more of THIS, this thing that you can feel. It has something to do with relinquishing one's ego, that is definitely part of it. You cannot get that from books or DVDs, you have to get it with the help of the people that live by example.

Isabel

DrDeb
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Posted: Wed May 20th, 2015 01:21 am
Dear People: I wanted to bump this thread back up to the top with a notice, in case some of you had not seen my previous rave review in other threads -- Melanie Smith-Taylor's new book, "Ridiing With Life: Lessons from the Horse" is now out and available.

This is one of the best books you could possibly get if what you want is detailed instruction and guidance in our approach to horsemanship. It works for any style of horsemanship, although of course Melanie's specialty is show jumping (she's the 1984 Olympic gold medalist) -- so another good function of this book is to help bridge the gap for those who ride "English" but can't get their horse to do what they were hoping it would do. Melanie's book takes you through the first exercises in mannering and "starting", right up through advanced jump gymnastics and courses.

Least expensive and best way to obtain it is to go to http://www.taylormadehorsemanship.com -- it's currently featured on their home page.

Highly recommended to one and all. Cheers -- Dr. Deb

 

 




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