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Movie About Buck Brannaman
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Sheila kay
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 Posted: Sat Nov 5th, 2011 06:06 am
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In Bucks colt starting class he is seen lecturing the students about the "trust" that their horses have in them.. it takes a lot of trust for the horse to allow the human to throw a saddle on his back, strap the skin of a dead animal under his belly and smell like a "Big mac".  Well this takes a lot of trust, like Buck says, on the part of the horse to allow a "predator" human on his back. Where in the movie did Buck or any human take the time to "earn" that trust as far as the colt is concerned, before throwing that saddle on him?

Sheila kay
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 Posted: Sat Nov 5th, 2011 06:46 pm
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I am so puzzled about what "changes" the owner of the colt needs to make in her life. The things which were presented in the movie that I saw were. 1. She bottle fed the colt after the mother died, she saved him from dying. 2. She said that she got an injury when the colt was about 3 mo. old, so he didn't get the handling that he needed. 3. He was turned out with 17 other stallions, I wonder if he was turned out with all of them at that young age.( Can you imagine turning a young boy out with 17 other male teenagers with no adult contact.) No wonder he was a wild child.  It was such a mistake to take him to a 4 day clinic and expect a miracle. And the fact that this horse was obviously a traumatized horse, begs me to wonder why they even put a saddle on that horse.  A horse like him needs a lot of time, and a lot of patience. I am upset that this was even in the movie. So again, about the need for changes in the owners life. I see that she is a horse "hoarder," and specifically a stallion hoarder and just plain stupid, I wonder what else Buck saw in her that needs changing.

DrDeb
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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2011 02:45 am
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Sheila, the key statement that Buck made in the the film about the way the lady raised the gold-colored colt was made rather quietly and almost incidentally, so that you (and I think quite a few other people) may have missed it. The key statement was: "the horse didn't get enough blocking when that was needed."

The owner of the horse needs to change so that she sees 1. what "blocking" means, and 2. improves her timing so that the blocking can be given at just the right time, and 3. gains the inner confidence to be able to execute blocking to the degree and at the time it is necessary.

The owner also needed to have gelded the colt, and needed to have had the wisdom to see to it that the colt got less close exposure to humans, so that the animal could have been properly socialized at an earlier time both by competent human handlers and by other horses. This is similar to the training that people who get licenses to rehabilitate injured deer or wild birds receive; they must always be able to separate themselves from the animal, so that the person always perceives the difference between what their needs are and what the animal's needs are.

Because the owner in the movie was not able to do this, the gelding did not occur when it should have, which would be normal horsemanship practice. Further, the lady has some characteristics of a hoarder; surely you heard her confess in the movie that she has 18 stallions, many kept in the same pen. This is not only incompetent, but it's insane, and it makes handling the horse or teaching it anything much more difficult.

The owner needed to recognize at the FIRST sign, rather than at a much later point, that she could and should ask for help. For example, she might have sought help at the point when the horse began attacking people who entered its pen. She might indeed have sought help the very first time it bit her, kicked her, or ran over her. She certainly might have sought help the first time it charged at a car, or at the time when it attacked her in the golf cart. These things were all in the past by the time she brought to colt to Buck.

So, Sheila, it seems you missed quite a lot of the important content of this movie. That might be because you came into it from a point of view that makes it difficult for you to GET those points. I'd like to invite you, therefore, rather than go on criticizing Buck's film, to instead post a new thread here with any questions which you may have. Because continuing this particular discussion, which can't help but involve you at least implicitly criticizing Buck, will be entirely fruitless because I will not allow it. If, however, you want to post questions about stuff that has bothered you in other threads, where no one's name is mentioned, you would certainly be welcome to do that. The type of question I would like to see would start out by saying, "Dr. Deb, I don't understand how a horse's trust is to be earned." Or it could be, "what is meant by the term 'blocking'?" This will lead to a discussion that will help everyone else, many thousands of people, who read here. See if you can try that approach -- I'm sure it will work better for you especially. -- Dr. Deb

Tammy 2
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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2011 04:05 pm
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From my point of view, that colt was the most relaxed when the guy was riding him. He was able to let down his guard and realize that they were not there to hurt him. That was probably one of the only times in that colt's life that he met someone that could make him feel like he was ok, and could stop trying to defending himself all the time. Take a look at the expression on that colt after the guy had ridden him and lead him out of the round pen. His head was lower, his eyes were softer and he just went along with him because I believe he felt some comfort being with the human. However, it did not last as we saw the next day because you can't just change how an animal has been living overnight. The saying that you can't go through something bad and come out good on the other side comes to mind.

Also, Buck said to the other students in the clinic the next day that the colt should be an example to everyone that if you have a baby colt around, you have a huge responsibility to make sure that he has a good life and that things don't get to that point..."I hope...I hope".

A very good and important lesson for every horseperson out there.

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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2011 08:06 pm
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Yes Tammy, I saw that too. He had a much softer, relieved look. Sheila, you would do well to stop judging and looking for someone to blame for that situation. As Buck also said "I have the best job in the world because nobody has to lose in order for me to succeed" This is not about your being right and others being wrong. 

I would also suggest you get Ray Hunt's colt starting videos and study them so you can understand how effective and good these techniques are. And as far as "natural" horsemanship goes, the only way to practice that is with high-powered binoculars from a considerable distance.

You should also note that death is a part of life. That colt died at birth, and though Mother Nature can seem cruel, in this case She was right. You should be more distressed over the many sound, sane, broke saddle horses going to slaughter because nobody wants to pay their way anymore.
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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2011 12:33 am
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This movie was about Buck .... NOT a horse training video.                                              

The lady was very sick herself - horses never stood a chance.

Contact the film makers to get in touch with that lady.

 I am sure the horse is probably not dead and Shelia you can go save that one and the 17 or 18 other stallions.

Please very careful.

 

DrDeb
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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2011 01:01 am
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Sheila, you really seem to be having trouble listening. I told you that I would not permit further dialogue from you in this thread, particularly if it continued to be critical -- even implicitly -- of Buck or the Buck movie. As Viking points out, you are attempting to critique the film as a training-techniques video -- which is silly and inappropriate -- and my further belief is that this is a thin disguise for a desire on your part to criticize Buck. We will not tolerate that here.

If you want to ask content-based questions, as I mentioned before, you must do so by starting another thread. And remember, "content-based questions" relate strictly to the subject at hand or something that you want to learn more about. You therefore also must convince me by your tone and attitude that you are here to learn, rather than try to show me or anyone else that you "know more". What I am after is finding that when you ask a question, you ask it for one simple reason: because you want to know the answer.

You have said several times that you want somebody to answer your simple questions. That's good. So I'll be glad to answer if you'll cooperate with the direction I have given you.

If you come back to post again in this thread, Sheila, you will be permanently banned from this Forum. Your choice, babe. -- Dr. Deb

Sheila kay
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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2011 01:02 am
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Dr Deb, why can you not answer my question. Because you cant.!!!

DrDeb
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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2011 01:04 am
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Sheila, you have read the directions, and I have answered several of your questions above. I have also offered to answer any further questions, if you would simply post them in another thread. Nonetheless, you have deliberately disobeyed. I always keep my promises, the first of which is for YOU to get the blocking that YOU have needed. So good luck to you in your further travels as we kiss you goodbye. -- Dr. Deb

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 Posted: Mon Nov 21st, 2011 08:14 pm
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'You've got to give something you never gave, to get something you never had'

I am getting a lot out of rereading this (as I always do from the forum), so I thought I would be brave and post one of my experiences.

The quote made me think of a lovely, sensitive mare I was lucky enough to ride growing up.  We mostly just went on trail rides all around our place and in the surrounding area which was a mix of farmland and hilly bush and tree country.  She loved foals of all types, so I imagine she filled in for me a fair bit, but I was also pretty quiet in myself, so I think that was helpful.

We were riding up a back farm road when a pack of dogs started running out from their place and getting a bit forward, snarly, and aggressive with us along the road by their house (which was probably a good 800 metres from the road, so no reason for them to behave that way).  Previously, they had just stayed up by the house and maybe barked once or twice in a reasonable fashion.  Anyway, there were about 3 or 4 large dogs, and 2 medium dogs and while they were mostly just working themselves up barking, not acting like they would in fact attack yet, it definitely wasn't a good or acceptable situation.  So I guess we sort of felt like they had been misinformed and that couldn't go on.  Or there could have been a new dog, I'm not sure.

So, we (the horse and I) lured them carefully into the field across the road about 800 metres or so, and then we chased them home very emphatically.  This is more specifically what we did.  At first we sort of slowly retreated and led them obliquely back and forth across the road to the field. Kind of a diffuse energy lure.  I suppose we were also assessing them at this point too; they were already less hysterical, and looking a bit confused, less cohesive as a group. (I probably suggested they go home at this point, too.)  Once we were in the field (on a nice dirt equipment road, not in the crop!) we turned around and galloped pretty quickly up the field.  Very controlled and with a very strong energy lure about 10 metres or 35 feet behind us.  Kind of like displacing or refining our "fleeing" energy and space into an energy and space that far back because that is where we wanted the dogs to stay.  I would say we were calm but both very, very focused indeed on shaping and keeping that lure back there.

Then, quite suddenly we dropped all that, just "poof" like it never existed, rolled back on a dime (she liked doing that in general) and charged back to those dogs who were all sniffing around in a confused fashion where the lure had vanished.  We were coming on at a pretty good clip, but were absolutely impassive with a big wall of energy out in front.  Well, the dogs looked stunned for about a heartbeat and then lit out for home extremely quickly and silently.  We eased off a bit before the road (I never did see any traffic or even people all the years I rode there, but I still didn't want them run over), and once they were back on their property we dropped the wall, came to a walk, and turned to walk home as if they simply didn't exist.  And actually I have no idea what they then did at that point because they certainly weren't bothering us.

The next time we rode there a few of them sort of weakly barked at us from about halfway to their house and we just sent an energy wall out, after that they didn't say anything again. 

It is really interesting to go back and relive the sensations and to try and put them into words as there are a lot of specifics in just that one event.  So what did I give. . .  I am not even quite sure.  Of course I didn't think all that through at the time, mostly I just remember thinking "lure" and then it was all kinaesthetic.  So, did I think lure and she thought yes, or did she think lure and I picked up on it, or were we both inspired at once?  It felt like "my" idea at the time, but the main thing was that we went into it absolutely together and stayed together moment by moment while focused on our goal.  I think what we got was this expansion of trust and possibility to creatively problem solve together in what could have been a bad situation.  And that was deeply satisfying and it was also fun.  Since I was quite young and she was a horse, I don't believe we even really thought about it much again except for feeling pleased with ourselves and each other, a "that takes care of that" kind of feeling right at the time.  But I imagine it did inform and expand the possibilities between us, what we could "call on" in each other.  And whenever we saw any dog after that we did have kind of a giggly private joke feeling for quite a while. 

Many thanks. 

Indy
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 Posted: Tue Jan 10th, 2012 03:36 am
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I just watched Buck again last night. I got even more out of it after a second viewing. It is available on Netflix through the instant streaming option!
Clara

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 Posted: Tue Jan 10th, 2012 05:16 pm
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When "Buck" opened, there was a short note about it in a magazine which was not a horse publication. This quote from Buck was in there, and seems to resonate with some of the other threads going on. It is one of those statements which has a lot in it:
   "The horse tells me a lot about the person, depending on whether it's sure or afraid or aggressive."

                                                        Jeannie

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 Posted: Fri Sep 20th, 2013 09:02 am
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I have a question about something I am confused about from the movie... which I only watched today!!  I am hoping you can help me understand.
I am wondering if anywhere Buck has made mention of this incident and how the assistant handled the situation prior to being bitten. I watched the incident so many times and there were so many warning signals that this was about to occur. It seemed the trainer was really silly to have been in this situation in the first place and secondly not to have read the signals a little better. I have great respect for Buck, his philosophies and teaching methods but this seems a little bizarre that the situation was permitted to unfold this way (I only watched the movie for the first time last night!) ... I just wondered if someone had more information about this horse and situation as I've been looking it up all afternoon with no luck!

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 Posted: Fri Sep 20th, 2013 02:13 pm
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I don't think Buck was watching when this happened, the film crew was there to film it and Buck was notified later of what happened, at least that is what I understood. I believe the owners and the assistant acted on their own.

Isabel

DrDeb
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 Posted: Tue Sep 24th, 2013 05:18 pm
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Florey, it's easy to judge after the fact. People who watch 'the horse whisperer' movie do the same thing. So do those that get enmeshed in the so-called 'natural horsemanship' school, or anyone who follows a self-made and self-recommended guru.

One thing we teach in this school is 'judge not, lest ye be judged.' What happened to that guy on the film was what the impartial eye of the camera showed. That YOU got to see it was due to the fact of Buck's having given permission for that footage to be shown -- and also, permission having been granted by the guy who was bitten, the woman who owned the stallion, and everyone else whose image is identifiable on the film.

It would be more profitable for you, and some others who have posted here (whose judgemental or argumentative posts I have already deleted) to consider WHY Buck -- and all the other people -- might have given that permission. There must be something there that Buck wants you to see; something there that the other people learned a lesson from.

If one of the lessons you learn from watching the film over and over -- and that's something I think is a special advantage and plus of having film to watch at all, so I do want you to do that -- but if one of the lessons you learn from that is how to 'see it coming' better, then well and good. But please don't use your newfound heightened perceptions to bludgeon anyone else. Rather: keep it to yourself, use it for your own development, see if you make fewer mistakes with your own horse now that you've learned from the film. -- Dr. Deb


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