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Talking Horses
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lighthorse
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 Posted: Sat Nov 6th, 2010 02:33 am
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This morning I was riding on a road going uphill.  Off to the side there was a rustling sound that un-nerved my horse.  We got off the road where a crop had been harvested, my horse kept looking off where the sound had come from, somewhat agitated.  I had caught a glimpse of a deer, so I knew the source of the noise.   We circled and changed gait, stopped and backed up.  He did everything that I asked; but, he wasn't at ease.  Then I remembered about imaging communication.  I showed him mentally the image of the deer just as I had seen it bounding off.  He just settled down.  Thankfully, he believed me!

DrDeb
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 Posted: Sat Nov 6th, 2010 04:49 am
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And the important part here is: he picked up your mental picture. This is the part that I would like to encourage people to practice -- to get more on the "broadcast channel" that the horse is on by his own nature, instead of trying to get the horse to be on the verbal channel that is our own habit.

Sounds from the other thread like you had a good clinic with Harry -- Lighthorse, see if you can link the deer-visualization with the insight you mention there about changing the direction of your horse's mind, so that then he turns easily. What are the similarities? -- Dr. Deb

lighthorse
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 Posted: Sun Nov 7th, 2010 01:32 am
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Dr. Deb:  At Harry Whitney's clinic, he stressed straightness and following the line.  The line was visualized by the rider that the horse traveled on.  Someplace you recently stated that the rider should visualize the upcoming arc in the arena corner before the rider gets to the corner.  That would be telling the horse what was coming up and how to go about going around the corner of the arena. 

Today I went to a barrel race where I didn't compete, but paid a timer fee and practiced.  I have had trouble dragging the barrel over with his hip leaving the barrel.  This is because we lacked momentum.  I need him to run a half a length (horse length) farther to get by the barrel to come around clear of the barrel.  I encouraged him to keep running instead of dropping so soon to turn.  I also tried to communicate via visualization to leave with the barrel standing.  We did better!

Back to Harry's clinic, he had us pick 2 obstacles in line to ride to for straightness.  If one rides to a fence post, one could still go crooked and not know it.  If one had a fence post and a tree behind it lined up, you will be able to stay straight keeping all in line.  Riding the line, seeing a line in front of your horse helps one stay straight on the circle or arc.  The rider looks, the horse should look....then he thinks at what he's looking at....because that what horses do.  Their thoughts are usually where they are looking at.  If he doesn't look and turn when/where you look, you use the reins to place the horse.  Then, one strives for refinement of that.  (Ha!  I hope that is what Harry was saying....that's what I learned!)

I think it helped with the deer episode that I had turned, circled, stopped and backed up my horse so we had a link between us  to work with.  If I hadn't kept his "birdie" with us, I don't think it would have worked then. 

bobo
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 Posted: Sat Dec 4th, 2010 05:59 pm
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Hello all,

Just reading this forum, very nice.

I agree about visualisation, am trying to teach my son to visualise what he wants his mare to do and guess what it works.  He is 4 years old, scrunches up his face to "make a picture" and it works.  He sends pictures to other horses as well, invariably they do what he requests.  He also "talks" to the horses all of the time, sometimes he says they are very quiet-he can hardly hear them or they will not talk to him which seems to make his very sad and quiet.

Over the years I have seen repeated examples of horses exhibiting "reasoning skills" that defy instinctual behavior patterns. 

Really enjoy this forum

Thanks

Alexandria
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 Posted: Thu Dec 23rd, 2010 10:27 am
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Hi All

I love reading all your thoughts on the communication between the horses and humans.

As an professional animal communicator I fully support the concept that animals see in pictures and that they also have a large understanding of the human vocabulary that they associate with (i.e. English or Spanish or whatever the country they live - which brings with it problems for the horses when they are imported to a co0ntry where the language that is spoken is different to that which they were born and bred...but that is a different issue again)

Working telepathically with animals is easy and fun and creates a whole new dimension to your relationships in and around your home and enables the input from the animal into decision making, behaviour outcomes, health and life/death issues.

Your animals are all capable of communicating with you through pictures, sensations, feelings, thoughts, sounds etc....it is only the human species that denies that this is possible.

So I strongly encourage all of you to start to connect with your animal friends in a way that honours them as spiritual beings that are inhabiting a physical form that is different in shape and size that that of a human.

When Dr Deb came to down under Australia back in the mid 1990's I spoke to her about this and she agreed with me that some humans are more receptive and open to communicating with their animals than others and it is just a matter of being receptive and allowing and receiving.

The animals of this world truly do understand and are just waiting for humans to catch on to a different way of being :-)

Have an awesome day

Alexandria

Last edited on Thu Dec 23rd, 2010 07:10 pm by DrDeb

DrDeb
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 Posted: Thu Dec 23rd, 2010 07:09 pm
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Dear Readers: I have been expecting for some time that something like the above would arrive from some source or other. One of the purposes for which this Forum exists is to provide our worldwide readership with straight information.

In his initial posting, Allen Pogue said absolutely nothing about "telepathy". This is good and acceptable, because there IS no such thing as telepathy.

When Alexandra spoke to me in Australia, I did indeed agree that some people are more able to communicate with their horses. I was not thinking of Alexandra as being one of them, however.

The greatest animal communicator that I ever met was Tom Dorrance. Many remarkable stories are told by people who knew him about how he could influence horses from a distance, without touching the animal and without speaking out loud. I myself witnessed this on more than one occasion. Likewise, I also more than once saw Ray Hunt do it.

But the "it" that they were doing was nothing like Alexandra imagines. When people would walk up to Tom wanting to talk about "telepathy", "ESP", or "psychic communication", he would turn his back and walk away.

I know why: because to talk about it is to kill it. The Buddha simply pointed upward, because the "it" that is killed is not anything that can be called by a name, and it is not what Alexandra imagines.

Yes, what Allen is speaking of, and the terms in which he speaks of it, is available to everyone. Tom used to say this, too: that he hadn't got anything that anyone else couldn't also have. But, when he said this, he also always followed it with "this is something I had to do BY myself FOR myself."

Therefore, I am also telling you that 100% of the time, when you meet somebody who bills themselves as a "professional animal communicator," what you are actually meeting is somebody who is excellent at figuring out what the horse owner wants to hear, and good at feeding just those desires. In short: they are con artists of the first water.

So Alexandra, you can post here again if you like, and I have "so far" not banned you. I have kept your post up too, because it is useful. However, please do not mention "professional animal communicator" or "telepathy" again at any time, in any thread. Those who want this type of bullcrap can go to other places on the Internet to have their desires in this area fed.

I recommend once again to all readers that you avail yourselves of the writings of Henry Blake. And certainly, read the Birdie Book: because that will teach you how to "read" your horse a lot better, by which you will indeed become more able to "hear" what he is saying.

And love your horse also, which means primarily, figuring out what he needs and then giving that to him, with no thought or concern whatsoever as to whether, when you do that, he will love you back. -- Dr. Deb

 

Critter Chatter
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 Posted: Thu Dec 23rd, 2010 10:16 pm
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Dear Dr Deb

Thank you for providing world-wide readers with a forum for straight information and for your informative summary of your expereinces and observations of the brilliant work of the great Tom Dorrance and Ray Hunt and for reiterating your directions to your recommended reading of Henry Blake and the Birdie Book which I fully embrace in my work as a riding coach.

Have an awesome day :-)

Alexandria


hurkusdurkus
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 Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2015 05:07 am
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This is one of my favorite threads.

Sometimes when I am horseback, with my husband and our two border collies, moving a herd of cattle through the forest, it just blows my mind to think that we humans have an intention (to move cattle from grazing one area to another)...so we climb on the backs of horses, bring the dogs, and go about making manifest that intention. It is so peaceful walking through the forest, when the cows have been allowed to have the idea to move themselves, and the horses and dogs are just along for a trail ride in the forest.

It is a gift not just to have abilities regarding mental pictures, but to have horses (and dogs) that like to share their thoughts, experiences, and ideas with us.

Allen Pogue
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 Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2015 10:17 pm
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Hi Folks, A lot has happened since 2010 when I started this thread. The number of times both my wife and I have noticed the odd snorting sounds coming at the exact moment when (if it were true that the horses are 'punctuating' our sentences)are seemingly endless. She has been keeping a diary and calls it, "And the horse said".
Two examples:
Sombra the bay mare with the buckskin colt was at a extremely high class Lusitano breeding farm in Houston to be bred. The owner had agreed to a live cover. Something they rarely do (because of the danger to their stallions who were purchased for hundreds of thousands of $$). I had the conversation about how I notice that horses seem to be reading something in human conversation with the owner of the establishment just fifteen minutes previous. We were now outside washing the mare, wrapping her tail in preparation for the live cover. His ultra fancy cremelo stallion was acting like a total nut case. neighing, rearing, pulling in anticipation of the upcoming breeding. The owner started having a case of "buyer's remorse" and was very worried because his stallion might get kicked if Sombra reacted to the overexcited stallion. So he said to me, "Are you sure your mare will be OK with this?"
Without even a moment of hesitation Sombra turned her head all the way around ( shaping he body like a horseshoe) and blew the loungest loudest snort I have ever heard. The dumfounded stallion owner asked incrediously, "It THAT what you were talking about?"

I said, "That is EXACTLY what I was talking about!"

Was she calm to breed? Yes, she stood perfectly still and allowed the stallion to rear, bite and act like they sometimes do. She was a perfect lady.

Example 2:

A couple weeks ago I was leading a mare with a two month old foal at her side from an outdoor paddock towards the big sliding door located in the middle of the barn for her morning feed and the colt's first session of the day. Unknown to me someone had left a gate open around the corner of the barn. The scampering colt ran past the big barn door around the corner and through the side gate and out of sight. The mare's owner was in the aisle way of the barn and when I appeared without the foal she asked, "Where is the colt?".. I replied ( with a note of irritation in my voice) that someone had left the side gate open and the foal ran off. The mare immediately confirmed/affirmed my statement of fact with a tremendously loud blowing sound.

I could list more of these examples until my fingers got tired of typing.. but perhaps some of you are beginning to believe just enough that you might start noticing the same thing in similar situations at your barn.

So lets go another direction with this discussion.. Taba the tiny buckskin colt turned four years old last August and so I starting riding him in October. In November we were filming some commercials for a major horse treat & suppliment manufacturer. I thought it might be at least interesting to their office bound corporate folks if I taught a horse to respond with a "Yes" movement of his head when asked:
"Would you LIKE a cookie?"
So I taught this to Taba.
Now this is a trick we never recommend others to teach because it can become a bad habit, but I thought it might be useful in this one situation. Well true to form Taba started making such huge head gestures that it did become an obsessive behavior that needed some limits.
The fact is that if you teach a horse anything you cannot unteach them so what I did was to teach him to snort on cue when I asked him to ? Sneeze".. because at least he cannot ( or does not ) nod his head while formulating the blowing action and while making the noise. I had also taught him to "smile" so I had three head expressions I could switch back and forth to help contain the exuberant head nodding when he started to get carried away with his 'new' trick.

So a month or so later while riding him just on a whim I asked him to 'sneeze'.. He immediately complied and during the first circle of the 60 ft. round ring he repeated the behavior ten more times.
We stopped I stroked his neck, gave him a cookie and we started walking around the ring again.. He repeated the behavior eight or ten times. Another brief rest, praise and a cookie. The next circuit was exactly like the first tow except his head was going lower and lower and he would sorta wave his head back and forth while snorting/blowing. The movement reminded me of the way an elephant walks and swings their trunk in rhythm.
I quit for the day, not wanting to break the 'spell' and wondered what would happen tomorrow. I ended up getting busy with other things and so it was three days before we rode again.
I mounted Taba in the ring and we started walking around the perimeter. He IMMEDIATELY started blowing..
Well all experienced horse trainers know that when warming up a horse it sometimes takes a few minutes or longer before the horse is ready to go to work. More often than not the readiness is signaled by the horse blowing.
So I thought this is a curious situation, well it got "curiouser and curiouser" because Taba began blowing incessantly. I started counting but then quit somewhere between 70 and 90 repetitions because I realized that by counting I was not able to be exactly 'in the moment' with the horse.. The act of counting was distracting my attention.
Now what made this truly interesting was that Taba was again swinging his head as low as possible and quite wide and in doing so I could feel a HUGE wave of relaxation flowing completely through his entire body.. A sensation like I have never felt before. There was a 'looseness' that had to be felt to be understood and I am at a loss for words to adequately describe it.

So what does it all mean? Danged if I know fer sure..

Next time riding a couple days later he only blew about 35 times.. I really did not want this to be come an annoying distraction so I did not ask for it but certainly hoped to preserve the ability to call it forth.

The physical cue when teaching a horse to 'sneeze' is pressing the nearside nostril closed with the tip of an index finger. You press it closed about two inches above the opening. The horse thinks something is blocking the passage and so he blows to clear out the obstruction.

The day Taba blew repeatedly he was wearing a new custom made hackamore. The braider goes to great lengths to preserve the softness and flexibility in the rawhide that he prepares from a green hide that he skins. The result is a bosal that molds well to the curvature of a horse's nose.
I think that Taba may have been responding to the pressure of the new bosal on the cartilage of his nose. I had the bosal positioned slightly lower than 'normal'.

Anyhow, I find this to be very curious .. am I on to something?
Maybe
Are the results repeatable, are they valid? I will let you know on my next horse.

The photo attached shows Taba schooling at Liberty with a saddle and wearing hackamore head gear (not to new one).
He personality is just like his 50% Veiga Lusitano dam. You gotta be careful what you ask for because he does not hold back. Just as the photo shows.

Allen Pogue
Dripping Springs, Texas

Attachment: Fun time.jpg (Downloaded 199 times)

Mare`s Tales
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 Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2015 12:00 am
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Allen said,
"Well all experienced horse trainers know that when warming up a horse it sometimes takes a few minutes or longer before the horse is ready to go to work. More often than not the readiness is signaled by the horse blowing.
So I thought this is a curious situation, well it got "curiouser and curiouser" because Taba began blowing incessantly. I started counting but then quit somewhere between 70 and 90 repetitions because I realized that by counting I was not able to be exactly 'in the moment' with the horse.. The act of counting was distracting my attention.
Now what made this truly interesting was that Taba was again swinging his head as low as possible and quite wide and in doing so I could feel a HUGE wave of relaxation flowing completely through his entire body.. A sensation like I have never felt before. There was a 'looseness' that had to be felt to be understood and I am at a loss for words to adequately describe it."


We all know that when a person sneezes, seconds afterward the feeling of releasing the sneeze has an amount of pleasure to it, a relaxing tingle of letting go, not too far off from that of a yawn. Perhaps your horse has well enough found this out through snorting, an act close to sneezing, to want to repeat it for those good feelings of relaxation that come afterwards.

We have all seen the anxious prancing horse at the starting gate, the barrel race, the horse show, handled by a handler that is oblivious to what the horse is conveying through it`s body language. Most of the time the prancing (moving it`s feet so as to feel better about the situation, with a feeling that it can flee if it needs to) is accompanied by some snorting and head bobbing. Could the horse by snorting not only be trying to convey it`s anxiety to it`s oblivious owner but also to trying to self medicate into feeling better about the situation it finds itself in and relax?
Same as it does when moving it`s feet by prancing?

Getting back to the reasoning power of horses. Just an observation......

I have a 34 year old Arab gelding (have had him since he was a weanling) that no matter what horse has come into the herd, male or female, he has always been the herd leader and peace keeper. I think of him akin to the Edward G. Robinson of our herd, a tough little guy with high intelligence. (I taught him lots of tricks when he was yet too young to ride, just to be doing something with him waiting for him to grow up). He is also the horse that I put the foals in with when they first come here as weanlings as he teaches them manners without being too rough on them and injuring them. I have seen this horse WAIT in a certain place in the paddock for the perfect opportunity to arise when he can best put another big horse in it`s place. The perfect place for him is in a narrow corner of the double strand electric fence that surrounds their winter paddock. He will watch and wait and yes, I think I will take the heat and say "Plan" for when a particular horse is in the position against the fence where he can hammer this horse with both hind feet and the horse has difficulty getting away quickly. The lttle Arab`s point being made without a douht.

This horse is the guy that would play with our Border collie, they both adopting eachother as good friends. Our barn is situated so that I can use stall guards in the summer when it is hot and humid and the barn is the coolest of places. Naj would put his foot under the stall guard and onto the cement aisle and the Jack the border collie would run by to try and nip Naj`s foot. At the perfect moment Naj would snap his foot back into the stall and the Border collie would be just a second too late to nip Naj`s foot. Then the dog would come back from the other direction, seeing Naj`s foot back up on the aisle pad and the whole thing would be repeated, back and forth the dog would run and everytime Naj would have his foot up on the pad as bait and snap it back just in time. This play could go on for a half an hour at a time, many many revolutions. Of course it was great fun for both of them and fun for the humans to watch them interact.

I can site hundreds of times my horses have shown teamwork and reasoning while being observed in their pasture "goings on" without humans being in the equation. It`s facinating.

Mare`s Tales
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 Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2015 08:11 pm
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Another thought about Allen`s thread.....and perhaps Dr. Deb can chime in on this, I could be way off base.....

Could the vagus nerve be so stimulated after so many snorts or sneezes that it causes a type of relaxation in the horses?

Many many years ago, I had a young horse that appeared to have fainted the first time that the girth was tightened and also observed a friends foal, that she was teaching to lead, that stiffened and fell over. The foal appeared to have gone to sleep only to soon wake up again, get to it`s feet and be perfectly normal. I did some research and found out that the problem could have been stimulation of the vagus nerve.

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 Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2015 02:52 am
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This thread has been on my mind ever since a friend was diagnosed with SVT/ rapid heart rate. The doctor told my friend that one way to self regulate their own heart rate is to "cough", which would be considered a "vagal manuever". (Allen`s horse`s response and later the relaxation that came afterward?)

Interesting enough, this article from Psychology Today popped up with my googling and I can see so many connections as it applies to ourselves, our horses and this form of horsemanship that we are trying to master.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201302/the-neurobiology-grace-under-pressure

Funny that I always thought of Tom Dorrance as having qualities of a Zen master, a calmness from deep within that transferred to the horses, even from a distance. The article`s recommendation of surrounding yourself with centered/sured people hit home.

I also find it odd too, how so many things in life that you never thought mattered to your horsemanship, can connect.

Life is a circle.

Dr. Deb please remove if my link or post is inappropriate but, I found the subject fascinating.

.From Dr. Deb: No, this is entirely appropriate and fascinating. Always glad to have you pop up in the Forum, Mare's Tales.

Last edited on Sat Apr 18th, 2015 09:35 am by DrDeb

DarlingLil
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 Posted: Sun Apr 19th, 2015 12:13 am
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I have a mare here that is hard to catch. I told her "do you want to go out and see some horses and eat grass ?" She put her head right in the halter. First time she ever did that in the 3 years I've had her. I am not sure if I visualized this to her or not. Next time I will try to show a mental picture.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 22nd, 2015 09:15 pm
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I've enjoyed reading this thread, and it reminds me again to focus on observation when I'm with our horses. Earlier there were some comments on horses "reasoning", and it prompts me to relate an instance where one of our horses, if not "reasoning" seems to have pre-planned a manoeuvre. The situation was as follows. Horses are in a hill pasture, surrounded by 4 strand electric rope fencing. On the inside of the pasture, to keep them off a steeper hill for erosion control, I had a fence of only 1 strand, about 3 feet off the ground. Diego has somehow gotten through this line, and was apart from the other horses. He approached the lead mare and she nipped at him. So he backed away. The mare turned and walked away a bit. Diego then looked at the fence, walked away, then broke into a trot, made a wide U turn, increased his speed coming up to the strand, then tucked his butt under himself, put his front feet out in front so he was actually on the ground and slid under the fence as though he were sliding into home plate. Then he calmly got up, shook himself, and walked over to his mates. My wife hadn't seen it but we have security cameras that caught the act. I firmly believe he had planned that action as soon as he turned away.

Last edited on Wed Apr 22nd, 2015 09:18 pm by geedubya

JulietMacie
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 Posted: Wed Apr 22nd, 2015 10:42 pm
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Great thread! I have to add my story of "talking horses" or maybe this is a case of a "listening horse." In the indoor arena I was doing liberty work with my mare Macie during my weekly lesson with my instructor. During a short break in the lesson, Macie was standing alone in the center of the arena while my instructor and I were talking about pedestal work. My instructor (who calls my horse "Einstein" or sometimes "Poindexter" because she's so smart) was jokingly saying, "next you'll have to teach her to walk her back end around the pedestal while standing on one foreleg!" We glanced over at Macie who was watching us and I said, "look, she's listening and thinking about whether or not she can pull that off!" We chatted for another couple of minutes and while we talked, sure enough, Macie sauntered over to the pedestal, got up on it, lifted one foreleg and took a lateral step, then hopped down with a smug look. My instructor's new name for her is "A-mace-ing"!


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