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Saddle trees and changing back shape
 Moderated by: DrDeb  
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David Genadek
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 Posted: Sat Apr 11th, 2015 11:41 pm
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How big a seat do you need?

Choctawpony
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 Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2015 06:13 am
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I have a 14 inch western saddle that is comfortable for me and I also have ridden in a 15 inch western than was fine. The dressage saddle that I was riding in was a 17 inch.

David Genadek
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 Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2015 08:20 pm
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Ok so that will leave you with 1/2" in front and behind you. Think about movement and if that that would be enough? I have taken the drawing and put in your 16" bar and marked a center line on it. Do you want to sit that far back?

Attachment: skelatonmeasurements16-bar.jpg (Downloaded 253 times)

Choctawpony
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 Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2015 10:40 pm
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So the bar would need to be made longer and then come onto the front yellow zone in order to place the center of the saddle more forward. Now we are back to the elephant. Is this where the flare at the front of the saddle comes in?

David Genadek
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 Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2015 11:18 pm
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Yes Yes!! This is where we begin to understand that we need to create a shape that will allow the saddle to be where we want it to be. If you look at the Guacho photos I posted you can see that we removed the end caps and cut out a bunch of reed on both ends. The reed has enough body that it could support the tube to be over the shoulder but not on the shoulder. This is why rigid trees offer an advantage over flexible trees.

Choctawpony
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 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2015 01:29 am
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So if the bars were stuffed with wool it would have to be done with some sort of method that would allow for a gradient change without shifting in order to create the flair. In a traditional gaucho saddle, since it is a flexible system, does not the flexibility reduce some of the pressure in the yellow zone even as the bars extend over it? In asking that question I realize that flexible is a relative term.

David Genadek
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 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2015 03:30 am
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Yes but it takes pressure to bend something. I am currently working on a line dressage saddles and even with the rigid tree that can establish the angle in the front there is nothing to create the back shape in the panels, which are very similar to the Gaucho saddle. I solved the problem by adding some gussets to create the shape. Same concept could be used on the gaucho design.

David Genadek
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 Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2015 01:12 am
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Deb, Most of the sources I find say the anti-clinal vertabra is most often T16 You have told me in the past that it varies and you won't find it further forward than T16. Here is what it says in Sisson and Grossman. "The spinous Processes increase in length to the third and fourth and then gradually diminish to the fifteenth, beyond which they have about the same length. The caudal inclination is most pronounced in the second; the sixteenth is vertical (anticlinal vertebra); and the last two are directed a little craniad."
Here is a page from by By Klaus-Dieter Budras, W. O. Sack, Sabine Rock, Anita W√ľnsche, Ekkehard Henschelanother book that states the same. https://books.google.com/books?id=CUFN_K0AHgsC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=horse+anticlinal+vertebra&source=bl&ots=E27mr7N681&sig=C7bE27-Bg1qTdFxEZZ19V04uxAY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oSgsVYG1MIvkoASR9YGgCA&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=horse%20anticlinal%20vertebra&f=false Is this yet another example of a false hood getting repeated until we think it is reality?
Interesting that Sisson Grossman identifies the length of the spinal processes leveling off at T15 not T13. Personally I don't think that really has any bearing on saddle fit as we are not fitting the spinal processes we are just creating a tunnel for them.

Choctawpony
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 Posted: Thu May 14th, 2015 06:59 am
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I haven't abandoned this project. I am doing the ground work with Gilbert as my schedule allows, about three times a week. He has progressed from tripping over one ground pole to now having a springy trot over a series of four. While his belly has tighten up I haven't noticed any change in his topline yet.

Choctawpony
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 Posted: Thu May 14th, 2015 06:59 am
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I haven't abandoned this project. I am doing the ground work with Gilbert as my schedule allows, about three times a week. He has progressed from tripping over one ground pole to now having a springy trot over a series of four. While his belly has tighten up I haven't noticed any change in his topline yet.

David Genadek
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 Posted: Thu May 14th, 2015 06:09 pm
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Here are some instructions on how to make a 3d diagram of your horses back. Liz calls it back mapping. If you do these on a thinner paper and do a series of them at intervals you can hold them up to each other and see the progress you are making. If you are not making fairly fast progress on this you either need some instruction on what and how you are doing things or there is some thing in the horses body that is blocking progress. From what I see around here you can get horse moving right in few minutes to several weeks. That is not finished and strong enough to hold it for long periods of time just restoring the normal spinal curves and getting the horse to understand how he is supposed to use his body when you are on his back. We had one here last summer that took six weeks but he had four bad accidents and it took a series of chiropractic adjustments in addition to the message and ground work. If a horse has any fusing of bones then you have to live with those limitations.
http://www.aboutthehorse.com/web/tracings.pdf

john sk
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 Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2018 02:56 pm
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Hello is some model for Guacho saddle production? I would also like to make for my horse. Bastos are equal to sausages? The horse is formed? Thank you for the answers.


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