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JackSchreyer
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Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009 05:00 pm |
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We purchased this mare at the Race Track auction over 8 years ago and we have been thru a lot together. She won a State amatuer championship here in California as well as many Class A Circuit shows in Western Pleasure along the way. I am wondering about one thing though.
Some years ago I noticed that sometimes, when she sleeps, and she is extremely tired after a show day, or after a lot of work, when she gets into the nap she will fall over against the fence, or anything she might be next to, and that is just when I am looking at her. No telling how many times she does it when nobody is around. The other day, during the day, I was outside her stall and she was napping, with the usual back leg tilted up, and her head lowered gradually to the ground and her two front legs buckled and she fell right on her face in the shavings. She did not hurt herself but she was awfully embarrassed.
Is this common? Is there something wrong with her? Please enlighten me?
Thank you.
Attachment: Jessie Face.JPG (Downloaded 162 times)
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DrDeb
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Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009 06:41 pm |
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Jack, what you are describing has been reported here in the Forum before, and there have been articles discussing 'narcolepsy' in Equus Magazine as well, so what you have observed isn't absolutely uncommon. And yes, I'd be willing to bet also that if you've been around to catch her when she collapses or falls against something, it is probably occurring when you're not around to see it too.
You can think of this mare as being "falling down tired." Horses do not sleep as we humans do, i.e. lie down when drowsy, then gradually fall asleep, passing first from a lighter sleep and then into the "deep" or REM phase of sleep, and taking it all in one 6 to 9-hour continuous bout. Horses do experience REM deep sleep, but not unless they are lying down, and they rarely lie down for more than 2 hrs. maximum at one time. While we need 6-9 hrs. of sleep every day for good health, horses require only 2-6 hrs. -- although it is crucial that they do get that.
A horse satisfies its sleep quota in each 24-hr. period by "snoozing" while standing, making use of the locking mechanism that is built into the hind legs. This is why you see the horse with one hind leg "resting" -- this is actually seeing it backwards -- the more important thing that's going on is that the leg that the horse is standing on and not resting has the locking mechanism engaged. The front legs don't lock, however, although when the full weight is passing down through the front ankles, the knees will not tend to buckle in a horse that has undamaged check ligaments.
"Snoozing" only satisfies the need for "light sleep", however, and so the horse must find a time and a place where it feels safe enough to lie down and pass completely "out". Even sternal recumbency is not enough for this; the horse must lie flat out on its side. As this is a position and a state that makes the animal maximally vulnerable to predators, horses will not do it unless they feel safe enough.
You will notice that, during long warm afternoons, some, but not all, members of a herd of horses that are out in a field will lie flat out asleep. Those who are not asleep will be standing guard. If nothing much is going on or likely to go on, even the guards may be snoozing. But you will never see every member of a horse herd lying down at the same time.
The same thing occurs in a stable. If you have a big cover with a lot of pens under it (I am speaking of the usual California type of stable), if you go in there during the afternoon, you will see 30% of the horses lying down and the rest standing up. So far as the horses are concerned, the pens that form barriers between them are not there -- they are still members of a herd, and the usual herd rules and procedures apply.
But when you take a horse to a show, there is no herd. The animal hasn't been there long enough to feel OK about the other horses -- because again, so far as she is concerned, the pens that separate them are not there. She therefore feels that she needs to be vigilant all the time except when YOU are around there, or other people she knows and trusts. The first and main thing a horse trusts a human to do, if they trust us at all, is to be the Wolf Slayer.
So she goes in the trailer and rides X number of hours to the show and she does not sleep then. Then she goes in the show and performs for X number of hours, probably right through her usual afternoon sleep time. Then she goes back to the stall when you-all go out to dinner and then back to the motel, and she does not get any deep sleep all night either. And this goes on for two or three days. Not too difficult then to understand why she might be unable to keep herself from entering unconsciousness even while standing up.
If this is occurring at home as well as at shows, the first thing to do is to take a thoughtful look at her stabling conditions. There has to be a place where she can comfortably lie down -- soft dirt or bedding or grass. There has to be what SHE would view as safe conditions -- herdmates that are normally-socialized so that they know the rules about rotating the guard duties, and no horse present that is not a fully-integrated member of that herd. There has to be peace and quiet during at least part of the warm afternoons -- you'll know when that is because every horse in the barn will show you that's when they want to at least snooze. And there also needs to be peace and quiet and safety from about 9 p.m. to about 2 a.m., which is the other most likely time that they will lie flat out and sleep deeply.
So check things out, Jack, and see where this mare might have been prevented from deep-sleeping, and see if you can fix up better conditions for her. -- Dr. Deb
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JackSchreyer
Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 05:46 pm |
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Dr. Deb,
Thanks for the explanation. I don't think she is totally narcaleptic (?) though. In watching her recently she is the Alpha horse at the stable. All of the horses can see each other and when the rest are sleeping on the ground, and they all do at the same time, she is the only one standing no matter what time it is.
She just gets overtired and goes into a REM sleep and just loses it. She has not hurt herself at any time. I appreciate your comments very much.
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DrDeb
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Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 08:13 pm |
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Jack, from what you've now said I wonder whether there is not something physical which is making it uncomfortable for her to lie down. As horses get older, they will often have pains in their sacro-iliac joints, their lumbar spine, their neck, or their hocks that can cause them to have pains whenever they go to lie down.
If you'll notice, the younger horse or the horse that has no pathologies, when they go to lie down they will first kneel and then in the rear they squat very low before they go ahead and roll over. Thus they don't fall over behind from any great height.
But if they have pains in their hocks, for example, they will kneel as normal but it hurts them to squat behind, so they only squat "some" and then the rear quarters will fall over from quite a high distance up -- two or three feet. This means the horse will not lie down as frequently and, if he can, he will wait until he's over some very soft footing or bedding before he goes down, because it also hurts him somewhat when the side of his hindquarters hits the ground.
If they have pains in their neck or back, they will have trouble with kneeling. The'll hold their head up abnormally or cock it some way funny; and because the hindquarters are linked to the front quarters, they may also have trouble squatting.
The other thing that occurs to me, Jack, is that since she was on the track before you got her, she may also have torn/stretched/broken check ligaments in the front legs. This will mean that her knees buckle forward more easily than they're supposed to, so that even if she's "snoozing" normally, with weight passing into the ankles, this will not hold her knees back in the locked position as it would in an undamaged horse. You might want to ask your vet about this next time you see him or her -- it's not easy to determine whether check ligaments are damaged by external palpation, but if the horse ever has "trembles" in the front legs and/or you see her standing and it's like she's "over at the knees", then I would tell you 100% that is one of her problems.
On the other hand if you ever have any reason to ultrasound and/or MRI-scan her front legs, I'd go ahead and take a direct look at the check ligaments then too. And the whole situation is worth a little conversation with the vet, anyway. -- Dr. Deb
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