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Roundpen vs. squarepen
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thegirlwholoveshorses
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 Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 08:50 pm
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There is an excellent spot in Buck Brannaman's groundwork DVD, where he actually "rewinds" the footage to point out to the viewer a small gesture he makes.  The horse is loose, turning to the inside; Buck ever so slightly weights himself and moves his hand slightly to grab the thread and bring it to him.  He notes that had he not done that, the horse would not have "hooked" on to him and come up to him.  He goes on to "ground drive" the horse without any halter, lead, etc.  Yet, one could swear there must be lines on the horse, for it drives better than some horses in a bit & bridle--and this is just a filly who has barely been handled before.  It is a great visual on the thread.

Brenton-- how did you attach the wood top to your wheel rim pedestal?  Did you have to weld brackets on?

--TGWLH

Tammy 2
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 Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 10:41 pm
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That sounds great, I may have to buy that one.  I am going to audit Buck for the first time tomorrow.  Very much looking forward to it. 

Dr. Deb I love the "birdie catcher" phrase.  Great visual and reason for an aid if you need to use it.

Brenton Ross Matthews
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 12:09 am
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thegirlwholoveshorses wrote:
Brenton-- how did you attach the wood top to your wheel rim pedestal?  Did you have to weld brackets on?
Hello
--TGWLH
I cut a circle of strong wood so it fits flush with the top of the rim ,then drill hole in it and just wire it securely to the stud hole so the wire is not visible and cannot hurt the horses. I then screw rubber to the wood so it completely cover the steel.At the Gawler AG Show [South Australia] ,one year it rained just before our morning performance making the rubber slippery on my stands and when Lucre ,at liberty climbed onto the stand he slipped ,but he continued the performance although worried. When we did the same act in the afternoon performance I told the audience about the morning act and said that if Lucre refused I would not continue. This part I would have loved to have on video. When I asked him to continue he looked at me with a worried expression but climbed up and when he was on the top, again he looked at me, and I am sure he was smiling. Two separate horse people in the crowd  noticed it too and came to me after commenting about it . I think his birdie was with me then !  I too have been scouring my photos for the special one showing the thread but to no avail. I will keep tryingBrenton 

Brenton Ross Matthews
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 12:37 am
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Dr Deb --Just found this photo. Is Chyna's birdie on me , and is she just thinking "Get of my back you idiot " !!!!

Attachment: Chyna & Lucre sitting & on stands 020.jpg (Downloaded 325 times)

Brenton Ross Matthews
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 12:40 am
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Another of Chyna focussed on the ball she is kicking

Attachment: Picture 023.jpg (Downloaded 325 times)

Brenton Ross Matthews
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 01:00 am
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Caddy ,another mare we bred,  focussed on the cattle .


  Brenton

Attachment: th_Caddycampdrafting11-1.jpg (Downloaded 321 times)

Brenton Ross Matthews
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 01:02 am
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This is Helen competing on Moonshot and her birdie is on the beast too

  Dr Deb ,are these the type of birdie photos or am I on the wrong track

Attachment: th_HelenonMoonshot---1.jpg (Downloaded 317 times)

DrDeb
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 03:42 am
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Brenton, these are great photos. All of them show the Birdie and the Thread to different degrees. See, this is what I was after: not just cute photos of horses up on the pedestal, the finished product per se, but the connection between rider or handler and horse. And cow.

If you don't mind, Brenton, here are the captions that I would supply for some of your photos:

What Chyna is thinking with you up on her back there: "Brenton is my foal; and don't foals do the silliest things!" Her expression there is "motherly love" which is what you always get with the best mares. See the photo I attach to this below: different mare, much less skillful rider....same exact expression.

In the campdrafting photos, yes I am interested in Helen's expression and focus and the horse's, but also the COW has something to say there. And what is going on, almost beneath the rider's nose in this photo and also in the one where you are the competitor, Brenton, is that a DEAL has been "worked out" between the horse and the cow, whereby the horse says to the cow, "I am going to push you around there, and you better do what I say," and the cow replies, "OK I am going to let you push me around there and I will not try to knock your front feet out from under you." This is why it is so very important to have that certain kind of horse for either campdrafting or its American equivalent, which is "working cow horse class" -- the horse has got to believe in itself so much that it feels almost "genetically superior" to the cow. The horse has got to be able to "dominate" the cow, because if he does not, the cow will most certainly dominate the horse.

The rider comes in on this too; you have to be a pretty darned good rider in order to compete in campdrafting. The person has to be very confident and believe in their horse also, but also encourage their horse by their own ability to focus. You are saying to the horse, "I mean to get this done, we need to get this done together, and I'll go after it 100% and you come along with me with that kind of try too."

On my favorite bullfighting tape, Angel Peralta says, "the rider makes the horse more than the horse makes the rider." He also says, "in bullfighting, there is no room for dishonesty; the very act of bullfighting plumbs the depths of truth in a man." Any type of work with cattle will call on the person to that same extent.

I also want to highlight that viewing Buck's colt starting DVD, where he runs the footage back to point out that ever-so-small yet ever-so-crucial body gesture and body meaning, is key teaching and a marvelous opportunity for everybody interested in this to learn the most important stuff. Because it is the SMALLEST STUFF that tends to matter most. If the handler or rider is still riding on big, gross stuff, and that's all that the person can perceive or all that they think about, they will miss what Ray used to call "the small spot" -- they will "ride right on by the small spot" as he used to say. But it is in the small spot that the softness lies. All horses, at all times, would vastly prefer working out of the small spot. But if the person misses the small spot, they will then usually go right on up to a much bigger spot which (unfortunately!) will also usually produce results. But who cares then about the results!!!!!!!!

This is why PERFORMANCE, per se, ought to mean almost nothing to us. What is to be applauded and praised is NOT that the horse got on the drum; rather, HOW he got on the drum, how he feels about it, the excellence of his expression. That he did whatever he did while remaining 100% OK on the inside is what we should clap for, but that is not how the world at large works as we all know: most people remain unable to perceive anything below the surface, which is just the fact that the horse "did something".

Perceiving, energizing, and working with the Thread is the path to a much deeper understanding of what the true potentials might be of our interactions with horses. -- Dr. Deb

Attachment: Forum Mare Loves Their Person cprsd.jpg (Downloaded 310 times)

Jacquie
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 12:12 pm
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Aha, I get what you want to show here now. I think this may be a '3 way birdie' pic with us all focussed together on learning spanish walk.

 

Jacquie

Attachment: Sunny, me and Flo.JPG (Downloaded 293 times)

Last edited on Sat Nov 14th, 2009 12:12 pm by Jacquie

DrDeb
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 06:52 pm
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Yes, Jacquie, exactly. It is in moments like this that horsemanship happens; not generally at shows. Very good -- Dr. Deb

Jeannie
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 07:15 pm
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   This might be a good thread for a little Pooh philosophy from " The Tao of Pooh", by Benjamin Hoff, as I think Pooh philosophy and horsemanship go so well together:
 " Those who do things the Pooh way find things just happen in the right way, at the right time. At least they do when you let them, when you work with circumstances instead of saying, "This isn't supposed to be happening this way", and trying hard to make it happen some other way. If you're in tune with The Way Things Work; then they work the way they need to no matter what you may think about it at the time. Later on, you can look back and say, " Oh, now I understand, THAT had to happen so that THOSE could happen, and THOSE had to happen in order for THIS to happen...." Then you realize that even if you'd tried to make it all turn out perfectly, you couldn't have done  better, and if you'd really tried, you would have made a mess of the whole thing."
            
                         Jeannie

Jacquie
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 08:36 pm
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Here must be what can only be described as a united and a joyous birdie illustration then!

This photo makes me really laugh! Sunny and Flo were laughing like mad too!

Jacquie

Attachment: Flo and Sunny jumping a ditch.JPG (Downloaded 268 times)

Helen
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 10:51 pm
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What lovely photos! Thanks all for sharing. I especially love Jeannie running with her horse, Dr Deb with Ollie on the drum and Jacquie's last two - for the Spanish walk you can really see the horse concentrating and doing her absolute best to figure out what you want. And the last photo shows probably the only kind of united birdie moment I've ever felt - that lovely time when you know the horse is just as keen to fly over the jump as you are.
What a fabulous thread.

Jeannie
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 Posted: Sun Nov 15th, 2009 06:24 pm
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  It occurred to me that the process of thinking and searching for the correct response which is going on in this thread parallels the same thinking and searching that happens when we make a request of our horse. Dr Deb has asked for something and folks are offering what they thinks she wants. When she says," that's very nice, but not what I want right now", they think and search some more and then say,"so is this what you want?" She says," yes", or," closer but no", and then there is the aha! moment. And then you get your release and everyone is pleased all around. Love it!
          
                            Jeannie

DrDeb
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 Posted: Sun Nov 15th, 2009 06:56 pm
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Jeannie, yes, how fine of you to notice. I also appreciated your quote from the Tao of Pooh, one of my favorite books -- given to me by my old friend and teacher, Robert S. Hoffmann, who was quite consciously trying all the time to find the Tao and live it. A great and lasting example for all of us students he was, too.

But to get back to your observations about people -- if anyone has looked at the 2007 "Inner Horseman" disk and read the article about the Ray Hunt clinic in Pasadena: there you will find the expected photos of Ray, and of the horses and their riders who were the "ring" participants. But there are also dozens of photos of the REST of the participants -- that is, the people in the gallery who were listening to Ray and who were just as affected by what he had to say and by what he was showing the riders and horses to do, as the horses and riders were themselves.

Right in this thread we can do some of that, too -- has anyone noticed the gallery in Brenton's photo of Chyna pushing the ball?

There are several people in the gallery that, it seems to me, are getting more out of the demonstration than the others. They are the ones who most strongly send a thread from themselves to the horse, and they are also the ones that if it were up to me to pick someone to work with, I'd pick them first. Who are these individuals? -- Dr. Deb


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