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Re Woody article & Quick foot
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Cyrus
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 Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 09:18 pm
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This began in a thread of the quick foot.. assuming I need to begin a thread of my own to have the questions answered- or commented on... so as not to overtake another thread????

I re read woody .. and after the 2 day horsemanship clinic- it all makes more sense to me.

Basically- Dr Deb, and I am terrible at asking questions, as you may have discovered- but unless I ask, I never know the answer. I spend hours trying to work it out- like you building woody, and I will build a woody too.

So to clarify my perceptions of what I have read and listened to.

You are saying- it is our job as rider to teach our horse straightness, as we ride him, not to rely on the farrier, chiro , massage person etc- to fix all our riding faults that appear in our horses-( this would be assuming they have feet trimmed and cared for correctly as a young horse too- ??) and when they began their working life, before we mount- they travelled straight without us on them. Then we hop on and our balance etc- changes how the horse goes- and we have to show him how to carry us with ease-

We are doing this by attempting to place ourselves in the correct timing of his feet, in some ways our feet move as his feet do and we are to learn to feel when he is crooked or wobbly- set him on a straight path again- and just feel the lightest contact with his mouth.

We also do this with his " birdie" and that birdie is also my focus with my eyes???  as to where I want to go on my horse- ( yet to read the birdie book, hopefully its on its way to me soon)

The birdie book has arrived- but that is on mt " to do list" still

eg- if I am riding straight- I need to be looking straight between his ears-  at something- eg that ball we were chasing, or an object in the distance.

I myself need to feel straight- and make sure my weight also feels even- and I keep my body parts straight and balanced as well..( as best I can with each riders shape taken into account)

Then to turn - or ride circles, I will need to adjust this to the correct circle shape ( but right now I am working on being straight)

and reprogramming many years of bad habits, which I find just creep right back in- when I least expect them to....

and for what I felt your article said, If I address the issue of straightness in my horse-  this will also help his foot- etc

So - I am also interested in where my interpretation ( of your clinic and woody article) has strayed-  so correct me when I am wrong-

also som clues on how to also stop a quick foot- it has improved greatly over time- but at times it has felt like a singer sewing maching needle- going up and down and flicking out.

This is my other  horse - he is a 16 yr old thoroughbred gelding- 

Sam
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 Posted: Thu Jul 5th, 2007 07:13 am
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Hi Cyrus,

Have you had a chance to have a look at the Birdie book?  You will find it answers a lot of your questions, and possibly raises a lot more.  I am about to go back over the Birdie book, there is so much in it to digest.  I have finally reached a place where I can put a lot of what I have been learning over the years from Dr Deb, Buck B, Jenny P into practice.  Hope you are having fun.

Regards Sam

cyrus
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 Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2007 08:52 am
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About to get reading. It has arrived.

These are  the thoughts I had from the clinic I did, basically I am trying to explain how it seemed to me that weekend, and see if that makes sense, or I am way off target.

Cyrus
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 Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2007 08:58 am
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On the first paragraph,  I see that this might be a learning experience, that I have to figure out for myself by experience.

The way I see it, If I have been on the back of horse for 47 years, and I have not figured this out yet, I guess I need a few more clues to help me...  I am a slow learner I suppose.

on with the reading.

Cyrus44
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 Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 11:29 am
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I have read to chapter 7

So far - I guess you are still telling me I have to figure it out for myself.

I guess I will be dead by the time I work it out, as after 47 years on pony, If I dont get the ideas yet, perhaps I never will.

 I just wonder why Dr Deb replies to everyones posts but mine?


 

Last edited on Tue Jul 17th, 2007 01:07 pm by

Cyrus44
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 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 11:39 am
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DR Deb, as I read your book I feel the need to comment-


I ask questions- to discover if what I think you mean, is how I see & feel it.


I have been taught in so many ways, sometimes I never know what is what, and my mind skips about through 45 years of different lessons and learnings, but it alwys returns me to things that felt good and worked well and made my horse feel like magic.


I ask Questions-


To clarify my perceptions and to improve my learning and understanding of what is being taught,not to show how smart I am ( as the notes on page 46 may infer that adults do) As I  if I were that smart I would have figured these things out years ago, if that makes any sense.


I have found many people object to the questions I ask.

 Perhaps this is why.
I ask to learn and clarify what my mind is trying to do on top of my horse.

For example- when you gave me the imaginary pair of evening gloves- it really helped  me move my arms in time with the horses legs in walk( as I do become rather stiff a lot of time, I just forget to move quite often) it certainly helped me make his steps longer and shorter too.


My mind then turned your gloves back to your image of woody- and I imagined I had a hold of the tops of woody's wooden legs, and that became an even better visualistion of what you were trying to teach us( for me)as I helped his legs move longer.


Quite often what I hear is nothing like what the teacher said or meant, and certainly not what I am trying to do and I can also promptly forget what I heard, and return to old habits of doing things..


I also found it very helpful when you directed my eyes across my horses ears-
they were teaching points that really helped me change my focus. Simple but very effective for me.

Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 11:42 am by

DrDeb
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 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 05:43 pm
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Cyrus -- You are not being ignored. But the questions you have been asking about riding are going to be answered by the very reading you're doing. So there is indeed nothing else for you but to continue reading.

There is a much more important issue, however, that we do need to discuss just this one time again. As I mentioned to you when you were in the riding clinic with me, it would help you very much if you could stop focusing on what you haven't been able to learn, why you haven't been able to learn it, or how long it has been that you've been doing things whatever way you've been doing them. All that has to completely stop, because, as I told you at the time, these are a "failure story".

You need to focus on a "success story". Everybody who possesses a success story writes that story herself. It begins with Chapter 1.

When you are changing from a habit of rehearsing a failure story to a new habit of rehearsing your success story, then the entity that dwells within you -- the one that feeds and gets its nourishment from the failure story -- is not going to like it at all. And that entity is going to writhe and shout and pull all kinds of strategies intended to drive you back to the place where you focus on the failure story.

It is my feeling that it was not you, Cyrus, who wrote the initial post to this Forum, which was written and posted even while the clinic was still in progress. And since that time also, many of the posts were not written by you. They were, instead, written by the entity that dwells within you that wants you to fail, and it wants you to suffer, because it is unhappiness and suffering that it feeds on. So I do not reply to these posts, because I absolutely refuse to feed that inner entity.

Of course, this inner entity must die. You must kill it, because nobody else can do that. To kill it, you don't have to go after it in any violent way. What you do instead, is every time you find yourself wanting to say -- or actually saying -- "I can't learn this" or "I have difficulty learning this" or "I forget everything I'm taught within five minutes" or "I can't change what I've been doing for 47 years" -- then you step back from that statement internally. And you say (out loud): "I see you. I observe you. You're the one who wants to make me fail, but I see you."

The more often you tell the failure entity that you SEE her (or "it") trying to do what it tries to do, the more you weaken it. Because this entity, in order to survive, also has to believe that it operates in secret, outside of your conscious awareness. So as soon as you make the other entity know that it's been caught in the act -- as soon as you shine the light of consciousness on it -- it withers.

But I warn you again, it is not going to die without a struggle, and you're the only one who can possibly grapple with it.

There will be little need for further correspondence about this. If you want to read a book on this subject, go get Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now". I am hoping that next year, if you show up for the riding clinic held in your area, that I will be meeting a wholly different kind of student.

Best wishes -- Dr. Deb

Cyrus44
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 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 11:00 pm
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Very interesting, and true.

Its not so much a failure that I believe, because to fail you have to try, as yet I have not tried many of  these ways, but I did when I was a child. I guess I have to go back to my childhhood, riding the hills and exploring my mind more as well as my horses mind, as he has all the answers, when I can just focus and listen.

 

And there are many things I am yet to try, as I have not really worked out how to get past stage 1, if that makes sense.( This mostly relates to my horse Cyrus, as he has been the most fascinating horse I have owned, his power is awsome and somewhat scary at times)

I am sure I will, and I will certainly come back, as my mind is ticking along, as is CY.

I just have to work out the lumps on his back, which I am trying to. They are slowly leaving and disappearing. Do you think lumps like that can be related to emotional pain? Or they are physical things, from saddle fit as you suggested as well.

I am finding the ebook a little difficult to read in places, ( mostly the small writings by the diagrams in some places, but I have got a long way through)

I am enjoying it immensely. I was fascinated by your idea of following a pretend calf, I grew up hunting cattle as a kid, and I always followed real cows, so it made good sense to me.

I get a bit lost on chapters( around chapter 7, I ended up at page 159) somehow, reading all the horses signs.

Then thought I had finished, but it seems the photos led me to the end of the book and missed chatpters 8 etc.

But I am winding my way through.

I have a question about the horses feelings diagram, what is pain? and does it fit anywhere into feelings and emotions in a horse.

You mention not riding horses , eg the one with the terrible conformation, as it would be cruel and a mare with bad legs, and the look on her face was from this.

So where does a horse with pain ( physical) issues fit into the diagram is basically my question.

And thank you for replying, as if you keep covering up the mike( as Ray did for you, I might have my feelings saved, but I don't mind sharing my journey, as each time I read respones from you and others, it opens new doors.

 

 

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 Posted: Fri Aug 10th, 2007 10:42 am
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Well, my reading got a bit astray, but I have got a long way through so far.

I have decided, I have a left dominant eye, with righthandedness.

This makes me more of a thinker- than a feeler... and confuses me further.

I have to keep working hard on feeling more than thinking.

I am not sure what has changed in Cyrus, and we still are not riding much, but scary things are now things he seems to zoom in on and march right up to.

He licks them and does a bit of chewing. 

Presently we have a large amount of earthworks around my area, as they develop the next paddock, but he is coping well, its becoming very busy.

So what does   licking and chewing mean? in terms of " the birdie"

I might have missed it somewhere, or not found it as yet.

 Oh yes, and sad news too, my yellow dog in the piccy of us, had to be put down.

He had a tumour in his spine, so we are all missing his company-

but that photo of him shows him as he always was-

having lots of fun running with us



 

 

Last edited on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 10:45 am by

Pam
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 Posted: Fri Aug 10th, 2007 07:33 pm
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Cyrus,

Sorry about your dog passing away.  He sure looks happy in the picture of you all -and I 'm sure he had a good life.

Regards,

Pam

Cyrus44
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 Posted: Sun Aug 26th, 2007 11:03 am
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I am still wondering if Dr Deb - are you there-

Re the licking and chewing responses, of horse. Does it also relate to the birdie? and if so how?

See above.

DrDeb
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 Posted: Sun Aug 26th, 2007 06:36 pm
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Cyrus -- if you would read other parts of this Forum, and not just focus on your own queries personally written by you, you would find out that many of your questions get answered in other threads. I don't answer every single query because I assume that the normal participant here will be interested enough to read all current threads.

As to left and right-brained responses: the understanding you have of this is entirely false. It isn't just you; many people have these misunderstandings. Please go read discussion of this under the "Horse Vision" thread.

As to licking and chewing: when horses stop being afraid of something, they often begin licking and chewing. When it follows an experience where the horse has learned something, it is a sign that they are "chewing matters over" in their mind. On the other hand, when a horse is just beginning to be apprehensive about something, sometimes then also they will lick and chew, and again it is a sign that they are turning something over in their mind. So you must not take licking and chewing itself, per se, as a sign that the horse is OK or that he has accepted something. It's the whole context that you must read to tell you that. -- Dr. Deb

Cyrus44
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 Posted: Sun Aug 26th, 2007 09:29 pm
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Thank you. I had read the parts on the left and right brain, and understood that.

It is certainly different to what most natural horseman seem to tell us.

It was the licking and chewing that I had not found.

So, by looking at the whole situation where licking and chewing occurs, would it be if it is a good learning experience for the horse, it will show other signs, perhaps like its eye looking softer, lowering its head etc?

I had never really noticed what other signs would be apparent if the licking and chewing is not really related to good experiences. Nor have I located that in any readings so far in here or the birdie book.

 

DrDeb
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 Posted: Mon Aug 27th, 2007 07:33 am
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Cyrus, as I said, licking and chewing merely means that the horse is turning something over in his mind. It could be something he liked and enjoyed, or something that he dreads but wants to remember or is trying to understand. A horse is just as likely to lick and chew after being whipped as he is after learning to mount the drum or cross a ground-pole and being rewarded for that.

And by the way: there is no such thing as a 'natural horseman'. I have mentioned that in this space repeatedly, and it came up also at the clinic you attended (it comes up at nearly every public event). I would appreciate not hearing that term used again here, as the people who do allow themselves to be categorized that way are anathaema to me. Thanks for the courtesy -- Dr. Deb


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