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Wade Tree Saddles
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David Genadek
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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2009 04:55 pm
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I've attached a silhouette of the saddle and I want everyone to ignore who's saddle it is and who made the saddle and just look at the line of the saddle. What do you see?
David Genadek

Attachment: saddleprofile.gif (Downloaded 407 times)

Carey
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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2009 05:45 pm
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After watching Dave G's DVD and taking Dr Debs advice of shifting the saddle farther back-- I have noticed that my current saddle isn't so bad.  It doesn't bridge at all, and it leaves plenty of room for the shoulders- and it has contact with the back in the center part of the saddle.  SO that has been an interesting discovery.  I was putting the saddle to far forward-- so thanks Dr Deb for pointing out what should be the obvious!!  I thought I was putting it back far-- but it can go back more and dry spots have gone away now-- that is quite a relief.

 

The saddle in the picture does appear to have the deepest part of the seat too far back- or not with in the desired 4 inches to the stirrup.    I will be interested in others views on it-- I am not sure about the rigging placement-- and I do not know enough to know.

Indy
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 Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 01:43 am
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The deepest part of the saddles seat is right before the front of the cantle and it has a steep pitch from the pommel to this deep spot. The placement of the rigging looks ok to me; however it looks like it is not adjustable.
Can't wait to hear what else people come up with and I am really excited to hear what Dave can tell us about this saddle. I am having a hard time being able to tell anything about how the saddle might fit a horse.
Clara

Allen Pogue
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 02:57 pm
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Hi Folks,

 Here is a picture of a lightweight trail Wade saddle to consider.

The horse is a Lusitano gelding Unico who is wearing a two-rein outfit. This is a small bosalito and an 'entry-level' spade bit.

 I will follow this overview with a close-up of just the saddle and another picture of the "fore and aft" rigging system, which I really like.

Allen

 

Attachment: Unico.JPG (Downloaded 349 times)

Allen Pogue
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 02:58 pm
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Closeup of the trail Wade

Attachment: closeup.JPG (Downloaded 356 times)

Allen Pogue
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 02:59 pm
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For lack of a better description I am calling this a "Fore and aft" rigging system,

 Allen

Attachment: Fore&aft rigging.JPG (Downloaded 347 times)

Indy
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 03:17 pm
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Is that how the rigging was designed to be done?
Clara

Carey
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 03:22 pm
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IT is hard to tell if the saddle fits the horse from the side view-- I find-- but it does look like it works well on him.  You have a fairly spanish look going on there Allen--which I am a fan of-- what a nice looking horse!

Allen Pogue
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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 04:07 pm
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Hello Indy,

 Yes the saddle was designed to be rigged in the fashion shown. The back D ring is set at an angle to accomodate the pull of the girth.

Here is how the builder describes this design feature:

 The rigging is designed to lighten the pressure in the wither, shoulder, and girth area. At the same time, it also disperses the pull over the entire underside of the saddle. It may appear to be center fire rigging, but it floats between 7/8 and 3/4 position.

Carrie, The saddle most certainly fits .. in fact I liked it so well I had two of them made so that when friends come to ride I can outfit both my ridin' horses in nice rigs. I am in the process of making bridle horses out of Uno and Dos. They are half brothers. Dos (pictured below) is a Hispano-Arab. He is sired by the same a Lusitano as Uno and out of a big Russian Arab mare. At 16 hh he is a challenge for me to get on when on flat ground. Uno is an easier 15-2hh. Both of these horses are well-made for riding, excellent withers and uphill.

 I have had both horses riding in the mountains in these saddles. We just returned from a trip to Wyoming where we rode up to over 10,000 ft in the Wind River Range near Pinedale.

Allen

Attachment: Dos WindRiver.jpg (Downloaded 348 times)

Annie F
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 02:04 am
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The saddle IS beautiful!


The rigging looks very much like my dressage saddle--mine has a point billet at the front of the saddle, with a second billet that is attached to the tree via two webbed straps that come together like the "Y" in Alan's rigging, with a ring that lets the Y adjust so that this billet can be pulled more forward or straight down as needed to attach to the girth along with the point billet.  I also love this rigging system.

I really like the photo Alan provided with the saddle on the horse and the stirrup pulled out of the way so that you can see just how the rigging works--wish every saddle website would provide just that kind of picture.


Annie

 

Indy
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 02:55 pm
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Thanks for sharing the pictures of your beautiful horses Allen. Are both of your saddles the same size and shape? Your horses seem to be different shapes it surprises me that the same saddle would fit both of them. Is the rigging the same on both sides? Is this saddle comfortable for long hours in the mountains? I am interested in learning more about saddle fit and the role the rigging plays in function. I love all the beautiful hand carvings and appreciate the artistry involved in it. I am more interested in function and comfort.
Clara

Carey
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 05:31 pm
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I sort of wondered if the Bay horse was younger?  I also sort of wondered about the degree of the tree-- most Wades come in either a 90 or 90 degree.  From my limited experience with Wade tree saddles the one thing I have found is that they do fit a variety of horses with in reason.  Especially because you mentioned how tall the Lusitano was.  That is the trouble I have been having-- relating to saddle fit-- with a young arab/percheron who is almost 16 hands- and still growing-- and with my 16.2 Hanoverian, and with my little QH mare who is very wide for her small size.  I have a 90 degree Wade-- and I think that the next one I get would need to be a 93-- either that or a completely different type of tree like what Dave makes or something. 

 

On a separate note-- what is everyones feeling on tail swishing, back pain, and saddle fit.  A friend of mine pointed out to me that my mare swishes her tail a lot when I ride her- and is convinced it is from my saddle--  It is not something I noticed while I was on her-- but will be paying more attention and switching saddles to see if that makes a difference. 

David Genadek
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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 01:41 am
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Yes that that you starting to see the seats.  it would take a very skilled rider to compensate for how the saddle seat is constructed. It would take a toll on the human body.
David Genadek

David Genadek
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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 01:53 am
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Indy,
There is no real reason to do that type of latigo on that saddle other than the rider wants to ride with one cinch. There are some very good concepts behind this technique. It came about from a conversation I had with an architect. We were discussing different styles of riggings and she explained to me that the reason a flat plate rigging function properly was because it was a triangle. When you pull on the point of the triangle the pressure is going to go where the area of the triangle is divided in half. While doing clinics it was very common for me to see people using saddles that had the rigging placed too far forward so I applied the concept for a quick fix for people that could not afford to buy new saddles. It has two applications, one it can allow you to change the rigging position on a double rigged saddle that has the front rigging  too far forward and secondly when people  are afraid use a rear cinch to stabilize the saddle or would prefer to have a single rigged saddle rather than a double rigged saddle.

     After my video came out a major manufacture picked up on the concept and began selling their saddles rigged in this way. I guess others are doing it too.This is great because it's a very effective technique. However, one of the topics of this thread is that you become conscious of the concepts behind what you're buying rather than just buying because something sounds good. In this case what sounds good does actually work for good sound reasons but you should understand the reasons.

David Genadek

Joe
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 Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 02:55 pm
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Interesting, Dave. 

It is very good that you are doing this.  A horrifying number of stock saddles are sold with very bad seat and stirrup configuration.  They tend to dump the rider onto the cantle with legs forward, thereby encouraging them to be behind the action.   There is no way to ride in those monstrosities in a way that is either good for the horse or balanced for the rider.

I have long suspected that in part this is because people (or their children) want saddles that look like those ridden in rodeo where say, ropers want to have a particular balance.  So, at best you can say that they are a misuse of a specialized design.


BTW, triangular rigging of various sorts was very common in the 19th century.  I have various examples.  However, as with other things we have talked about, their technical capabilities and their understanding of bio-mechanics and fit was not as well developed as what you and some other saddle makers have. So, bridging was a common problem.

Joe



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