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Size of Horse's Feet and Limbs -- Need Your Data
 Moderated by: DrDeb  
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GoldPony
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 Posted: Sun Jul 19th, 2009 07:34 pm
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5 yr. old Connemara mare

Bone: 7 3/4"

Wt.: 821 lbs by tape

Hoof: 5 1/4"

Sound, has never been shod.

I can possibly get you 4 more med. ponies as soon as I can contact the owners. I also can get a 5 yr. old, 17 hand reg. saddlebred mare belonging to a friend. I'll work on that, it may take a few days.

Oh yeah, I put a weight tape on the Haflinger mare I posted earlier and found I had guessed her weight within 10 lbs. of the tape results - got lucky!

GoldPony
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 Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 11:56 pm
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Here's two more:

10 (ish) yr old grade Haflinger gelding

Wt. 840 lbs

Bone 8 1/4"

Hoof 4 7/8" shod, sound

This guy is about 13.1 and a chunky powerhouse of a pony!


5 yr old reg. Saddlebred mare

Ht. 17 hands

Wt. 1016 lbs

Bone 8"

Hoof 6" flat shod and sound

A beautiful, athletic mare!

Mark
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 Posted: Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 01:19 am
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20-year-old Quarter Horse gelding

15.2 hands

995 lb.

B-T circumference: 7.5 inches

Wall-to-wall hoof width: 5 inches

 

3-year-old Quarter Horse gelding

15.3 hands

1050 lb.

B-T circumference: 8.5 inches

Wall-to-wall hoof width: 5.25 inches

 

DrDeb
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 Posted: Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 05:50 am
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Thanks very much to you both, for going to this extra effort. We are now up to 95 horses measured.

Mark, I did finally get time to review the photo you sent to me, of the dark bay or brown QH gelding. I have a query on that image -- was this a typo? You said the animal stands 17:2 hands -- that's almost unheard-of in Quarter Horses. Did you really mean 15:2? It's quite common for QH's to weigh over 1200 lbs. and yet not be even 16 hh. Plus, if the animal has the build of a QH -- which the photo shows -- and he really did stand 17:2, he would have to weigh far more than 1320 lbs. So something must be off somewhere. Please let me know -- with my grateful thanks ahead of time. -- Dr. Deb

Mark
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 Posted: Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 02:06 pm
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Hi, Deb: I hope the photo and data can be of some help to you and your work. I will try to answer all of the questions you posed.

Marvin is indeed a registered Quarter Horse, but of the appendix persuasion. In the interest of full disclosure, he's more Thoroughbred than anything. I am looking at his registration certificate now. His sire is three-quarters Thoroughbred, and his dam is a full-out Thoroughbred. So, despite an AQHA certificate of registration, Marvin is primarily Thoroughbred. I think of him as a Quarter Horse because I am involved in Quarter Horse showing and whatnot. I apologize if there was any confusion, as I probably should have mentioned that in the original message.

His height is neither a typographical error nor an exaggeration; he's a big guy bought specifically because of his temperament (amenable) and talent over fences (average but VERY forgiving), AND because of my own stature and girth (tall and no longer svelte).

Now on to the topic of weight. I too thought 1340 lb was way too light when I got that measurement repeatedly off the weight-tape. I've read some work comparing weight-tape and electronic scale measurements, so it wouldn't have surprised me if the weight-tape was off; though handy to gauge fluctuations, they seem to be less accurate for horses on either end of the weight spectrum. Unfortunately for me and my pocketbook, I've had occasion to get an electronic-scale weight on Marvin. Today marks Marvin's seventh day at the vet clinic being treated for a very stubborn case of cellulitis in a hind limb. The vet, who participates in horse-pulling contests -- so therefore has loads of experience when it comes to estimating body weight -- eyeballed him at around 1500 lb. When he was walked onto the digitial scales, the monitor flashed 1420. So, there again, using the tools at hand I was off (but I tried!).

Taking all this into consideration, a more accurate portrayal of Marvin may be this:

Thoroughbred/QH cross, 8 years old

B-T circumference: 8.5 inches

17.3 hands, 1420 lb (by electronic scale)

Wall-to-wall hoof width: 5.25 in

Now, the measurement that I couldn't wrap my mind around was the hoof-width one. I retook this one three times because he looks like he has good-sized feet for his considerable size, without any obvious cosemtic foolery. In fact, I really believe in my farrier's knowledge, and the horse has been sound. I will revisit that when I get him back home.

I hope I've cleared up some of your queries surrounding Marvin's measurements.

Mark

 

DrDeb
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 Posted: Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 08:18 pm
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Mark, thank you very much. Measurements on these out-sized horses are quite important and this is very helpful. Into the data set he goes!!

You will see when I publish the data (and that means the raw data as well as the sort of revelatory manipulations that I do with the data) what the size of Marvin's feet (and B-T circumference) mean. This is WHY he is important, WHY measurements on Warmbloods that are often in the same weight category as Marvin are important, and WHY (at the other end of the spectrum) measurements on the 400-900 lb. ponies are important.

It is not possible to magnify the size of the horse without imposing certain changes. This does not mean a person can't use a bigger horse, or that bigger horses are all unsound, or any such thing. What it means is that horsemen must use wisdom, they must use courtesy toward the animal. If a person is using a bigger horse, then just because the horse is big, physics tells us that "certain penalties and restrictions apply." -- Dr. Deb

Brandy
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 Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2009 03:02 am
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Tennesee Walker/QH cross, gelding, 26, still in light work, 15.3 hands

B-T 9 inches

Wall to wall hoof, just trimmed 5.25 inches

Weight 1260, scale

Barefoot, sound



Appaloosa/QH, gelding, 19 years, 16.2 hands

B-T 10 inches

Wall to wall hoof, just trimmed 5.75 inches

Weight 1400, scale

Barefoot, sound



QH/TB gelding, 15 years, 16.1 hands

B-T 9 inches

Wall to wall hoof, just trimmed 5.25 inches

Weight 1320, scale

Barefoot, sound (needs shoes for gravel roads)



Percheron/ TBXQH gelding, 12 years, 16.1 hands

B-T 10 inches

Wall to wall hoof, just trimmed 6 inches

Weight 1420 scale

Barefoot, sound



Hanoverian/Arab mare, 10 years, 15.2 hands

B-T 9 inches

Wall to wall hoof, just trimmed, 5.5 inches

Weight 1220 scale

Barefoot, sound

DrDeb
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 Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2009 06:15 am
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Brandy, thank you very much; your horses have helped to fill in one of the gaps in our data. Anyone else out there have horses that weigh between 1200 and 1700 lbs.? These are the bigger TB's, many WB's, and some crossbreds like Brandy's. We would love to hear from you -- it will help you and your horses too -- many thanks -- Dr. Deb

Brandy
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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2009 12:26 am
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Visited my friend to day, here are three more

Appaloosa/QH mare, 15.2 hands, 14 years

B-T 8.75 inches

Wall to wall hoof 4 5/8 inches

1260 lbs, scale

Barefoot, sound



Appaloosa/QH gelding, 15.2 hands, 19 years (same app stallion as mine)

B-T 9.5 inches

Wall to wall hoof 4 5/8 inches

1320 scale

Barefoot, sound



Appaloosa/TB gelding, 15.3 hands, 10 years

B-T 8.75 inches

Wall to wall hoof 5.25 inches

1220 scale

Barefoot, sound

These three were trimmed 7/21/09, measured today

DrDeb
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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2009 06:20 am
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Brandy, thanks again for this extra effort. I do have one query about these last several horses that belong to your friend. Especially with regard to the 19 year old Appy X QH gelding -- has this horse had any difficulties staying sound in the past? Particularly, has he had, or does he have, ringbone or sidebone? Also -- are his hooves kind of low-angled in the walls, in other words kind of 'squashed' looking, or do they have upright walls similar to a mule?

I ask because of the way this horse plots in comparison to some others -- it is not shameful of course to report that a horse is, or has been, unsound. In fact, it is these horses that teach us the most. Thanks again -- Dr. Deb

Tasha
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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2009 08:52 am
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do you still need small pony data or have you got enough now?

Brandy
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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2009 02:56 pm
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Good morning Dr. Deb,

The appy/qh belonging to my friend....about 8-9 years ago, he had a very slight limp that showed up only at a trot on a circle going to the left.  We changed farriers and she put him on a diet and he has been completely sound since then.  He has no evidence of sidebone or ringbone that can be detected without an x-ray (our horses get a wellness check every 6 months and this is part of the vet exam).  He also has no splints.

I don't understand what you mean about the wall angles in relation to a mule foot, but his feet are decidedly oval and not round.  They are not at all diamond shaped and have no flares, but are longer front to back than they are wide.  Her mare has similarly shaped feet, but not as exaggerated.

We have shod our horses periodically in the past (although our horses don't always live together we keep them all on the same management regime) when we plan to ride gravel roads quite a bit.  We haven't had trouble with them, but our thinking was that the horses have good feet so we wanted to keep them that way and since the hard, dry gravel roads are very different than their pastures, we did it as preventive.  The last few years we've been doing different riding, on trails that aren't so rocky, so have left them bare and haven't had trouble.

I hope this helps. 

 

 

holistichorse
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 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2009 12:48 pm
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hello, just joined this forum and thought maybe you could use some warmblood info!


Hanoverian,gelding, 11 years old 16.3hh

B-T - 10 1/2 inches

forefoot-wall to wall  6 3/4

weight- 1450 lbs - weight tape

was sound unshod until couple of years ago when he fractured his coffin bone, since then shod in front and sound when working.(when he is working...not shod now, not working hard and not lame)


Oldenburg mare, 5 years old 16.2

B-T - 9 inches

Forefoot-wall to wall  6 1/4

weight - 1300 lbs - weight tape

sound, never been shod


Dutch Warmblood gelding, 8 years old 16.3hh

B-T - 10 inches

forefoot-wall to wall  6 1/2 inches

weight - 1400 lbs - weight tape

sound, never been shod


Dutch warblood gelding, 4 years old, 18 hh

B-T- 10 inches

forefoot -wall to wall- 6 3/4 inches

weight- 1360 lbs - weight tape

sound, never been shod


hope this helps!

DrDeb
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 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2009 07:59 pm
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Dear Holistic -- Welcome to the Forum, and thank you very much for filling in with some Warmblood data.

I do have a query on yours -- are these rather flat-bodied horses? How much width would you say there is between their front legs where they exit the body at the top -- in other words, if you pet them palm-up on the undersurface of the chest, do the sides of your hand touch the forelegs? Or are their legs much wider apart than that?

I ask because, for the heights you are reporting, the weights are rather low -- especially for the horse reported as being 18 hands high. But the weight you give is possible if the animal is very thin and bony, or else very flat-bodied and narrow-chested. Weight tapes are sometimes less accurate for bigger horses. -- Dr. Deb

holistichorse
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 Posted: Wed Jul 29th, 2009 06:23 am
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Hi DrDeb, thanks for the welcome!

As far as the weights go, the 18 hh boy is still just a big gangly kid...he's done far too
much growing up for his age and not enough growing out(flat bodied might be a good way to describe him)...he isn't too narrow at the chest, but could use a few more pounds...

The five year old mare looks good and fit, as do the two other boys, the 11 year old is quite wide between the front legs.

I will weight tape them again, but must probably gestestimate that the weight tape is somewhat off....I don't like skinny horses :)

Actually just rescued a 17.3 TB that I didn't include because he is skin and bone and
some "farrier" trimmed every last inch off his toe and I am surprised that he is even sound!(going to ask some questions about him in another post!)

Hope that explains the size/weight thing 

thank you :)


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