ESI Q and A Forums Home
 Search       Members   Calendar   Help   Home 
Search by username
Not logged in - Login | Register 
ESI Q and A Forums > ESI Q and A Forum > Questions and discussions for the ESI Q and A Forum > Possible Appt with Dr. Bennett for lame performance horse

Possible Appt with Dr. Bennett for lame performance horse
 Moderated by: DrDeb  
 New Topic   Reply   Print 
AuthorPost
tracer
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jul 21st, 2018
Location:  
Posts: 15
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2018 11:17 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Hello,

I have been working with Pioneer (Oakdale) Dr. Marty Gardner, and most recent Davis over the last 2 years. Though, she is somewhat better she has reoccurring and random lameness issues. No one has been able to diagnose the underlying problem. She can put up perfect and the next day be completely lame. A couple time over the years she has had trouble getting up. She has had multiple x rays of feet, ankles, hocks with very mild changes in the navicular bone(no one has been concerned with this) and ultra sounds of her entire topline, high suspensories and pelvi (rectal) all are clean. She has been lame in both the front and hind. She has had her front navicular bursae injected, along with her hocks and SI. She has had regular chiropractic and massage therapy over the 2 year as well. She has been tested for EPM, Vitamin deficiencies, insulin, glucose and lecithin all normal. I am waiting on a PSSM 1 test to come back. No PSSM 2 was done. She has been mainly hand walked with short stints of riding when sound.
Her diet has been soaked grass hay, LMF low carb stage 1, MSM,omeprazole, and 8000 IU of Vit E daily. Most recently I have started her on Pentosan and Platinum CJ.

I am in tears over this.

I am wondering if Dr. Bennett sees individual horses? If so, Id like to chat about possibilities.

Thank you for your time

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3123
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Jul 22nd, 2018 01:25 am
 Quote  Reply 
Tracer -- all the medical info is helpful in ruling some things out. What I would need to know, and what you don't say in your initial communication, is what you mean by "performance". What do you do with this horse?

How long has the horse been ridden in whatever manner, and by whom?

How old is the horse?

Would you please post a photo of the horse (conformation photo, i.e., taken from the side so I can see the body and legs).

How much does the horse weigh? How tall is it?

If you have been this horse's rider, are you "into" competition? You seem frustrated (to tears) -- is part of that because you had bought this horse in order to do some winning with it, and now find that it's not possible because she's off and on lame?

After you post the photo and we see and discuss that, it may be time for a visit. I understand that you do want to get some kind of resolution. -- Dr. Deb

tracer
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jul 21st, 2018
Location:  
Posts: 15
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Jul 22nd, 2018 04:53 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Thank you for such a quick response!
Tipsy is 12 years old. I purchased her to barrel race and be a trail riding companion. I will keep her forever and have NO intention of riding until she is completely healed. I do enjoy competing though, not necessarily the speed. It’s the power and effortless feel that comes when we get it right. I’m looking for a connection first and foremost. I spent 3 week’s with Tipsy and her former owner to make sure we both liked each other. I want a trusted friend first then to race. At this point I don’t even feel I can ride her at a walk as I don’t know if I’d make anything worse.

I have had her 3 years. (I have been riding for 45 years with a background with Ray Hunt, Tom Dorrance, Bryan Neubert, Bob Barrett and Gene Armstrong. The last 2 being in college. )
The first year was spent riding in the rolling hills of Livermore and barrel racing on the weekends. Prior to that she spent the majority of ride time in the arena, trail on the flat 1-2 times a week and barrel racing with her former owner. XXXXXX was her former owner who had her in training for a year. She said she had no soundness issues. I was able to talk with Shelley Holman who is another Pro Barrel racer and had Tipsy for awhile back and she did have trouble ( mental) with her, though could never figure her out
I did have 2 prepurchas exams done. My farrier at the who works for Pioner Oakdale looked at her, too. She has minor issues that NO one felt would be problematic. Unfortunately, that was not the case.
I will have to get the weight and Height for you as I do not know. I will send pictures, too.

I think I’ve got everything answered.
Thank you again for your time.

Last edited on Mon Jul 23rd, 2018 02:57 am by DrDeb

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3123
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2018 02:56 am
 Quote  Reply 
OK, Tracer, very good; great to know you have been riding with Gene Armstrong -- he certainly does have a straight and true grasp of what Ray and Tom were teaching.

I will await your posting photos, then we will proceed. -- Dr. Deb

tracer
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jul 21st, 2018
Location:  
Posts: 15
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2018 04:04 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Hi,
My photos are bigger than the file allows.
I have made them smaller and still having trouble sending.
Any suggestions

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3123
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Jul 24th, 2018 04:19 am
 Quote  Reply 
Just keep making them smaller in width, incrementally -- say go down by 1/2 inch each try, and it will finally be a small enough file size in order to fit.

Alternatively, you can EMail the photos directly to me by attaching them (do not embed them) to an Email: office@equinestudies.org.

Sorry the satellite that serves our area has been down all day today; we're up again now so good to go. Cheers, and thanks for the patience with the technology. -- Dr. Deb

tracer
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jul 21st, 2018
Location:  
Posts: 15
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Jul 24th, 2018 04:13 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Dr. Bennett
I ended up emailing the pictures

I appreciate your thoughts!

tracer
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jul 21st, 2018
Location:  
Posts: 15
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2018 04:00 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Hi Dr. Bennette,
Did you receive my email regarding Tipsy? The 1/4 Horse mare I’ve been questioning about?

Tracy

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3123
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Aug 2nd, 2018 11:58 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Yes, Tracy; very sorry but I have been tremendously busy with other stuff this week. I will get back to you on it just as soon as I can.

Let me tell you ahead of time, this is likely going to involve some dialogue between you & me on this board before anything else. So, very briefly, let me start you off by asking whether you have reviewed the "three basic papers" that I ask all students to read. They are found by going to our main website at http://www.equinestudies.org. Click on "knowledge base". When it takes you to that page, you'll see three big buttons on the righthand side.

The first is entitled "Lessons from Woody"; the second, "True Collection"; and the third, "The Ring of Muscles (Revised)." A click to each of these buttons will automatically trigger the system to download a (free) .pdf copy of the article directly into your computer.

As a barrel race competitor, it will be especially important for you to grasp and thoroughly understand what "Lessons from Woody" is all about: crookedness of carriage. This is almost certainly what has been causing your problems, and it is 100% within your power to fix it, all by yourself; however, it does require you to understand what crooked carriage in horses is.

So, after you read "Lessons from Woody", if you would please write back here, we can then discuss it in more detail.

When I get time, since I believe you intended originally to post a photo of your mare here but had trouble getting the image sized right, I'll do that for you, because I do want all our other correspondents, who are all good students of the horse, to see the photos of her too. What you have is a very typical, "typey" Quarter Horse, which almost 100% of the time means a horse that is too massive for the size of legs and feet that it stands on; and a horse that is noticeably "downhill" in overall body balance. These things derive from the QH's racing heritage, the original purpose for this breed's existence. They are disadvantages when it comes to non-racing usage, but this does not mean that your horse is not useful or trainable, or that you can't use her to succeed in barrel racing. What it DOES mean is that you need to get very clear on what, exactly, she is -- so that you can design a training program that will help her (and you) to succeed. This is the one and only main purpose to learning about conformation.

So you read "Lessons from Woody" and study up on it, and I'll post the photo, and we'll go from there. Cheers -- Dr. Deb


tracer
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jul 21st, 2018
Location:  
Posts: 15
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Aug 3rd, 2018 03:59 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Hi Dr.Bennett,
I understand people are busy. I’m not in a panic hurry. I just wanted to make sure you received them :-) i agree and understand about “ crookedness”
I look forward to reading your downloads
Thank you!
How shall I plan to reimburse you for your time?
Tracy

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3123
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sat Aug 4th, 2018 01:39 am
 Quote  Reply 
Tracer, that's nice of you to think of paying me. If I actually ever do visit you, there is a fee for that. Otherwise, if you want to be good to the Institute and help to guarantee that we stay online to provide the free service at this Board, you can patronize our online bookstore or membership sections; go to http://www.equinestudies.org and click on the appropriate buttons.

Meanwhile, happy reading & get back to me when you're ready. Cheers -- Dr. Deb

tracer
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jul 21st, 2018
Location:  
Posts: 15
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sat Aug 4th, 2018 02:57 am
 Quote  Reply 
Thank you.
I am already sharing you with my students! I’ve read Lessons From Woody and wish to re-read it again and have started on True collection.

I do understand the concept of straightness and strive for it along with the softness (suppleness) in my horses. I have had to REALLY let go of my mental garbage and own braces to feel my horses.... (I worked with and continue to work with a mental coach to help me along this lines). The last time I rode Tipsy Mid May (when she had been super sound) I had taken her to XXXX to do some walking exercises on getting her to reach up under herself in the circles. I wanted to and want to find ways of working with her to support her body! I think I have a fairly good understanding of this at a walk.... though not excellent and I still have room for improvement;-)

I’ll have to send you more pictures as she is not as sore in the hind and I got her reshod with her “normal” reverse shoe on her right front. She is standing more balanced now and not leaning forward.
Thank you very much for the help, it seems you have been what I’ve been looking for, for the last year and a half!

Last edited on Sun Aug 5th, 2018 02:17 am by DrDeb

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3123
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Aug 5th, 2018 02:30 am
 Quote  Reply 
Tracer, thanks for the compliments. I'm especially happy to hear that you know that without finding the softness, nothing else can be accomplished.

That means: every single time, no matter what, no matter where you are, no matter what YOU had intended to be doing or what your goals had been -- if your horse loses its softness (and that means mental/emotional equanimity as well as physical softness, for indeed those two things are so highly related in horses as to be essentially the same thing) -- then your obligation MUST BE to DROP EVERYTHING ELSE and do whatever is necessary to get the softness back.

Whenever you fail to make this your top priority, you are screwing your horse and blocking your own chances of success.

The Buddha said: the greatest sin is ambition, because it blinds you to what is happening (that you need to take care of) in the PRESENT moment.

I repeat: without softness, NOTHING ELSE IS POSSIBLE.

So much for the lecture on proper philosophical orientation; now let's turn to "Lessons from Woody," since you have said you have read it and are still devoting time to study it.

Let me pose you a practical question relating to barrel racing, the correct answer to which would come from your study/understanding of straight vs. crooked carriage in horses.

Assuming that you start with the right-hand barrel (as most barrel race competitors do), you would turn that barrel with the barrel to the horse's right side, i.e. you would execute a right-hand or clockwise turn.

As you probably know, most barrel races are not won -- they're lost -- often already on the first barrel -- for three major reasons:

(1) The first barrel is turned very wide, thus losing time.

(2) The horse bumps the first barrel hard, causing it to tip over.

(3) The horse runs right past the barrel without turning at all, possibly crashing into the wall.

The question for you is this: what is the ONE factor in the way the horse carries himself that causes all three of these problems?

Cheers -- Dr. Deb

tracer
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jul 21st, 2018
Location:  
Posts: 15
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Aug 5th, 2018 07:09 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Horse is braced, not straight
My feeling caused by lack of education, understanding and or caring by the rider. It also causes mental as well as physical stress for horse

DrDeb
Super Moderator
 

Joined: Fri Mar 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3123
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Aug 5th, 2018 11:13 pm
 Quote  Reply 
OK, right in general: horse is braced and not carrying itself straight.

But -- can you answer more specifically? In what way, exactly, does he not carry hismself straight?

Hint: why do they usually crash into the first barrel with their right shoulder?

Writing an answer to this will cause you to think through exactly what it means, physically, for a horse to be crooked as it gallops forward. Cheers, you're doing great and this is going to be very productive for you -- Dr. Deb


 Current time is 08:35 pm
Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  




Powered by WowBB 1.7 - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez