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billet configuration on dressage saddles
 Moderated by: DrDeb  
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David Genadek
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 Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2015 09:10 pm
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Now lets look a the shape of the panel on this saddle. You can see it is very narrow in the middle and the front is designed to take the pressure. This is the western concept of fit that started with Jousting saddles.

Attachment: westernfitting2concept.jpg (Downloaded 255 times)

David Genadek
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 Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2015 09:13 pm
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Now lets take a look at my classical equitation saddle that is designed on the eastern concepts of fit. You can see how the rigging will focus the pressure of the saddle on the middle.

Attachment: easternfittingconcept1.jpg (Downloaded 255 times)

David Genadek
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 Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2015 09:15 pm
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The panel is much wider through the middle and will distribute the forces of the Longissamus dorsi muscle rather than the Trapezius and lattissamus as the western concept does.

Attachment: easternfittingconcept2.jpg (Downloaded 256 times)

Kuhaylan Heify
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 Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2015 04:29 am
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O.K. Dave, so 8 weeks from 3 and 1/2 weeks ago would be about early November or so- would be the date when your classical equitation saddle will be available.. Hope my math's close to correct.. best wishes'
Bruce Peek

David Genadek
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 Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2015 04:54 am
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Bruce I am taking orders and we are a few weeks away from them being in stock.

Shapleigh
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 Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2015 05:05 pm
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Thank you for the visuals. This confirms what I thought was occurring regarding the direction of force produced by the billets, and certainly cleared up my misconceptions about using the point billet and last billet of a multi-billet English saddle. I was thinking it would be more like the triangle rigging of the western saddle, which is one of the reasons I invested in a multi-billet saddle. And thanks to Dave's educational video and this forum, my saddle does have wide the wide panels.

I did experiment last night with my English saddle using the very last two billet positions which are equivalent to the positions in your Equitation saddle, Dave. I did notice a difference in the movement of my pony for the better as well as a better centered seat.

Now another question if I may: If the tendency of the girth is to fall in front of the placement of the centered billets, does using an anatomical (curved) girth alter direction of the force of the billet? I ask this because when using the 'centered' billet options, the saddle did migrate forward a bit after riding. I have to note that my pony is broad- backed and mutton withered (and well sprung in the ribs).
~Shari

David Genadek
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 Posted: Mon Sep 28th, 2015 11:20 pm
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Shari, It is hard for me to comment with out seeing the particulars of the a given situation. I design saddles to sit more forward so the notion if it being forward does not bother me. I view those curved girths as a gimmick whose basis is the notion that the girth should be in the "girth groove" so it is secured to the Sternum. You can see in the photo attached that it would be pretty difficult to attache the girth to the sternum. Why would you ever want to place a girth in an area where there is a ton of movement?

Attachment: sternum2.jpg (Downloaded 217 times)

David Genadek
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 Posted: Mon Sep 28th, 2015 11:22 pm
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Lois the 14th understood girths.

Attachment: LoisXIVfrance1673.jpg (Downloaded 222 times)

Shapleigh
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 Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2015 04:44 pm
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I am not trying to place the girth where 'all the action is', it just seems to migrate to that area even when the billets are not parallel to the girth groove, but behind it. I actually have not tried a curved girth at this time.
However, I was researching historical photos these past few days and noted the wide girths used, such as in drawings of Baucher. Those girths are also placed fairly far behind the elbow. I am contemplating trying a multi-girth system, like the one pictured below, or those used with some side saddles. It looks like the Lois the 14th girth is the best from both of these types of girth systems. I will have to continue to try different ones to see what works best with my pony's build and current saddle.
~Shari

Attachment: greyhorsesaddled.jpg (Downloaded 200 times)

David Genadek
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 Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2015 05:35 pm
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Some horses have a pear shape that makes keeping the girth back near impossible. Mules are bad this way so they came up with a packer cinch.

Attachment: xcinch2.jpg (Downloaded 199 times)

David Genadek
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 Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2015 05:41 pm
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Here is what we use around here for the classical equitation saddles. We did a roper style English girth.

Attachment: english_girths.jpg (Downloaded 203 times)

snowdenfarm
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 Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2015 03:04 pm
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Hi, Dave. Will I need a long or short girth with my new XXXXXXXX saddle?

Thanks,

Cheryl
SE PA

Note from Dr. Deb: Please avoid mentioning saddles by brand name in this Forum. If it's absolutely necessary to mention the brand name in order to tender a sensible query, please write to Dave off list. Thanks -- Dr. Deb

Last edited on Thu Oct 1st, 2015 10:36 am by DrDeb

LynnF
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 Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2015 11:22 pm
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Because of the mule's "pear" shape, many mule riders keep the rear girth tighter than the front girth. Of course the 2 girths are connected and this keeps the rear girth from slipping back and the front girth from slipping forward.

JTB
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 Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2019 09:42 am
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Bump as these are great images to be studied. :-)
Getting my eye in for saddle fit again.

DrDeb
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 Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2019 10:24 am
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Judy, and everybody, I agree this thread is a wonderful contribution by our Institute friend Dave Genadek.

Recently he and I had some extensive telephone conversations around a series of three articles I was writing for Eclectic Horseman. I always check in with Dave when I'm onto this subject.

The three articles are all published by this point and if you're interested in saddle fit, I'd suggest you go get them from Eclectic Horseman mercantile/back issues, that is if you aren't already a subscriber.

Cheers -- Dr. Deb


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