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"off-setting"
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Steve C
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 Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2013 02:42 am
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Thank you...regarding the encouragement and belief, and also on your work concerning the book translation. I look foward to both, and will certainly get a copy of the book when you are done!
Steve

hurkusdurkus
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 Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2013 06:56 pm
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I am working on a better understanding of lateral work.
My Eclectic Horseman with the Three Classes of Lateral Work article is well worn.

Thank you, Dr. Deb, for this:
The difference lies precisely in which legs are moving, which legs are weighted, and which way the horse's body is bent.I think this is an important key to clearing up my own muddy understanding.

Also, I have been watching slow-motion you-tube videos. There is one of a horse performing a flying lead change which has been helpful to my understanding of lead changes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUgnXKK0ris

I have seen reining spins done in slow motion, and what I see is a horse that is on the wrong lead, as compared to a pirouette. Now that I know the spin is really a leg-yield, I will look again at the horse, with regard to which legs are moving, which legs are weighted, and which way the horse's body is bent.

What I would like to know, is: does anyone have a link to videos of lateral work performed well, in slow motion? My searches with 'slow motion' added to 'half pass' or 'shoulder in' have not been fruitful. Or, does anyone know how to take videos from the internet, and slow them down to view them?

Thanks,
Becca

Jeannie
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2013 05:59 pm
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Hi Becca,  this has interested me as well, and I had a friend take some photos of my horse doing shoulder in and haunches in during ground work, so I could see exactly which foot he was picking up and how he was shifting his weight. This inspired me to start taking pictures of other horses being ridden, because with a still photo, you have time to study the whole horse. There is a post which examines Beaudant in passage which helped me start to understand what I was looking at in a still photo. I want to take more photos of horses moving when I get the time, because I am beginning to see how gaits can change for better or worse.
  So you might experiment with still photos of your own horse or a friend's.

                                         Jeannie

DrDeb
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2013 07:10 pm
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Yes, I've said previously, after many years of experience analyzing both still photos and videos, generally speaking I prefer stills -- for the very reason that Jeannie cites, vis., that it doesn't move and it doesn't lie, and you therefore have time to look at it again and again if necessary, until you understand it.

Just one caution: make sure the image you're studying is printed so that all the true verticals at the center of the image (i.e. fenceposts, edges of buildings, trunks of straight-growing trees, telephone poles) are vertical. Once you rotate the photo enough in Photoshop to get the post or building that's directly behind the horse to true vertical, you then check that simultaneously against any available ground-lines to see if they are horizontal. Unless the road or the edge of the arena or the grass verge is curving, or unless the horse is posed at/moving at an angle to it, that should be at 90 degrees to the verticals. Early-morning or late-afternoon shadows in grass will also be horizontal, and they are more reliable sometimes than roads or verges.

The reason you use verticals as much as possible that are behind the horse is that most digital cameras have lenses with a fair amount of fish-eye, which will cause verticals toward the edges of the image to lean.

If you cannot be sure of the horizontals, you can always be sure of the verticals -- that's the rule to use. If there are no usable verticals (i.e. the horse is posed in front of a hedge), then rotate the photo so that (1) his front cannon bones are vertical and (2) shadows in the grass are horizontal and (3) one front foot -- either one, whichever jibes best with (1) and (2) -- is at the same horizontal level as one hind foot, ditto.

The only photos that cannot be honestly leveled are (1) those taken while the horse was posed upon/was moving upon a hillside, slope, manure pile, edge of a ditch, drum, or the like -- anything that lifts the front end of the horse; and (2) horses posed for a pseudo-conformation shot by "stretching" them so that the hind limbs project out toward the back. -- Dr. Deb

Steve C
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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2013 01:36 am
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Hi Becca,
My only thoughts are...to take any DVD or video of your choosing and then use the slow-motion option on the DVD player/remote control so that you can slow things down and analyze them.
Have a good day.
Steve C

Steve C
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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2013 01:38 am
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Well, now I have to drive to Canada over spring break to help my parents move down to the states...so much for staying home and having time...:)! but, I'll get to Dr. Deb's assignment still...:)
Steve

Jeannie
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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2013 05:21 pm
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If you want to watch a video, there is no need to slow this one down, as every movement is so slow, balanced and precise that between the horse, rider and music, it is practically a religious experience. When the horse lifts his front legs just so, le sigh.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMLUWeJZwwo

Philine
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 Posted: Wed Mar 6th, 2013 02:53 am
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Well thanks for that Jeannie. I just spent an enjoyable half hour watching all kinds of you tube clips of Nuno Oliveira riding different horses. Inspiring to see such a master and what he does with his horses. You can really see they are a pair working together.

Philine

hurkusdurkus
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 Posted: Sat Mar 9th, 2013 12:28 am
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Steve, thank you- I already use that feature on my dvd player. I was hoping that there was some way I could view you-tube videos that way on my computer, since there are rare videos available on you-tube that are not marketed on dvds. I'll try asking a computer/video editing person if it's possible.

Jeannie, thank you for posting your photos and especially the Nuno Oliveira video link. Indeed, there is no need to slow this one down.

I am just beginning to appreciate that when I ask my horse to 'off-set' with a front foot going to the right, I am not 'moving his right front foot through the air to land off to the right' as much as I am 'pushing his forequarters to the right with his LEFT front foot (which is on the ground, and is thus actually able to push!) so his right front goes through the air and lands off to the right'. Hopefully soon I will be able to connect what is (simultaneously) going on in the horse's hindquarters.

Becca

DrDeb
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 Posted: Sat Mar 9th, 2013 01:33 am
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Yes, Becca, in order for the horse to step from left to right, he must first lean to the left. This anchors the pushing foot while simultaneously freeing the foot that is going to be lifted and abducted. So you don't push the horse to the right at all; you sit quietly right in the middle of him all the time, exactly as you are to do under all circumstances and at all times whatsoever. And you don't push; you think instead that what you are doing is redirecting energy to go down into the anchoring foreleg, and that this is what causes it to anchor.

When you feel the horse anchor, then you permit or allow HIM to pick the swinging/abducting leg up -- you have nothing to do with it. If you push him, he will simply ground it more firmly. -- Dr. Deb

Jane W
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 Posted: Sun Mar 10th, 2013 02:02 pm
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Okay, I am still back on the bridleless riding/palms forward thing. 

I've watched the video and thought about this.  I even jumped threw my old steady eddy in the round pen and jumped on... he went where I looked - it didn't seem to matter what I did with my hands....  So, I was thinking it was akin to an old BB tape I have where he is line driving a young horse.  He goes into great detail about not needing or even not wanting to use actual long lines - drawing or pushing on the horse's eye instead.  So, am I on the right track here? 

But if that is the case, the palms would work just as well being forward as back (other than feeling a little less natural for the rider)....

 

DrDeb
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 Posted: Tue Mar 12th, 2013 05:59 am
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Jane, just as a minor point -- we ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT talking about riding without a bridle on the horse. The Peralta Brothers have bridles on their horses at all times. They have the "buckle" or centerpoint of a set of closed reins fixed up with an open-ended hook, which they, when they wish to ride without their hands upon the reins, latch over their belt-buckle.

But yes -- you are on the right track. What I am trying to draw out of the group who are reading here is the realization that they have to address the horse's eye. Or, to speak more accurately, they have to get their horse's eye to address THEM.

The horse's Birdie comes out of the horse's eye. Where does it go then?

What would happen -- what could you possibly DO with it -- if one flew out of each eye, curved back, and landed in the palms of your hands?

You will realize what you could do with it when you think about this: What (have we said) connects the horse's Birdie back to his body (to the very core of his being)?

Here's the same question in another form: Why am I not giving a "cue" when I stand in front of my horse, point to his less-weighted foreleg, and raise my hand -- and his response is then to raise and extend his foreleg, just as if I had lassoed it and pulled it upward with the lasso? -- Dr. Deb

 

DrDeb
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 Posted: Tue Mar 12th, 2013 05:59 am
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Jane, just as a minor point -- we ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT talking about riding without a bridle on the horse. The Peralta Brothers have bridles on their horses at all times. They have the "buckle" or centerpoint of a set of closed reins fixed up with an open-ended hook, which they, when they wish to ride without their hands upon the reins, latch over their belt-buckle.

But yes -- you are on the right track. What I am trying to draw out of the group who are reading here is the realization that they have to address the horse's eye. Or, to speak more accurately, they have to get their horse's eye to address THEM.

The horse's Birdie comes out of the horse's eye. Where does it go then?

What would happen -- what could you possibly DO with it -- if one flew out of each eye, curved back, and landed in the palms of your hands?

You will realize what you could do with it when you think about this: What (have we said) connects the horse's Birdie back to his body (to the very core of his being)?

Here's the same question in another form: Why am I not giving a "cue" when I stand in front of my horse, point to his less-weighted foreleg, and raise my hand -- and his response is then to raise and extend his foreleg, just as if I had lassoed it and pulled it upward with the lasso? -- Dr. Deb

 

DrDeb
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 Posted: Tue Mar 12th, 2013 05:59 am
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Jane, just as a minor point -- we ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT talking about riding without a bridle on the horse. The Peralta Brothers have bridles on their horses at all times. They have the "buckle" or centerpoint of a set of closed reins fixed up with an open-ended hook, which they, when they wish to ride without their hands upon the reins, latch over their belt-buckle.

But yes -- you are on the right track. What I am trying to draw out of the group who are reading here is the realization that they have to address the horse's eye. Or, to speak more accurately, they have to get their horse's eye to address THEM.

The horse's Birdie comes out of the horse's eye. Where does it go then?

What would happen -- what could you possibly DO with it -- if one flew out of each eye, curved back, and landed in the palms of your hands?

You will realize what you could do with it when you think about this: What (have we said) connects the horse's Birdie back to his body (to the very core of his being)?

Here's the same question in another form: Why am I not giving a "cue" when I stand in front of my horse, point to his less-weighted foreleg, and raise my hand -- and his response is then to raise and extend his foreleg, just as if I had lassoed it and pulled it upward with the lasso? -- Dr. Deb

 

Annie F
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 Posted: Sun Mar 17th, 2013 04:39 pm
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Here is a link to a different trainer using the same method with his hands when asking a bridled horse to back up.  I also enjoyed watching the initial groundwork in this video, because  he is focused on moving the horse's feet, one step at a time, and the horse's birdie seems to be right there with the trainer every moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29jlGTz3q58

Dr. Deb, this fellow is not on your Friends of the Institute list, so if you need to remove this link, no problem.

Best,

Annie

 


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