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Back too short
 Moderated by: DrDeb  
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Melz
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 Posted: Wed Nov 28th, 2007 08:40 pm
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A family member has just had a professional saddle fitter out to her horse, and has been told the horse has the shortest back that he has ever seen and will need a 16 inch saddle. Family member is petite,  and I don't think her butt can get much smaller! She doesn't feel comfortable in anything less than a 17 inch. According to saddle fitter, the horse will need a very tiny rider.

The horse is an Arab, measured at 15.1 1/2 hh, wide and deep throughout but quite leggy. We feel he would be too big for kids (I don't know about you but I want my child as close to the ground as possible!).

So, this would suggest there really is such a thing as a "too short back", and with this in mind, is it a common "Arab" problem? Are we breeding horses that are out of proportion? Or is this horse just an unusual case?

I have your books Dr Deb but find anything specifically about this problem - though if I have missed it please send me in the right direction. Thanks.

Cyrus44
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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 01:12 am
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Hi Melz- Maybe your friend and I are related, I too am having the same troubles.

I not only have the shortest back they have found( amazed really) but the widest too.

Located in australia, but I have been reading a lot about saddles and saddel fit, and there seem to be saddles out there sepcifically made to assist the Arabian horse.

This is only one, I have seen, but I felt  I saw  useful websites in America, specifically for arabians saddles. 

Like your friend a 16 in saddle and me DO not suit, but this saddle seems to be made shorter under too.

I said NO to that saddle in 17in, but there are saddles about - if you look and research what people say

I can not find a website for PJ saddles-

I also found this interesting reading too-


Dr deb will know better  than I- I look forward to seeing her replies too, as I trudge through trying to fix a similar issue.

 

 

Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2007 05:59 am by DrDeb

Lisa
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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 10:11 pm
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Hi Melz,

I have an Arab too, 15 hands, maybe 15 1. He has a back like a table top. We went through a terrible time with saddles but my saddle fitter came up with a XXXXX  fit for Arabs that seems to work. Just to be safe I get chiropractic and massage periodically, and I get the saddle checked and reflocked if necessary about every 6 months.

Good luck! Lisa


LISA IT IS NOT PERMITTED TO MENTION BRAND NAMES IN THIS FORUM. PLEASE REVIEW OUR GROUND RULES FOR USE WHICH ARE FOUND AT THE TOP OF THE FRONT PAGE OF THE FORUM.

Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2007 06:00 am by DrDeb

cyrus
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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 10:44 pm
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Thats Interesting - a XXXXX was also recommended to me for my appy with a short back as well.

The price tag made it  the last in line of ones to try.. not that rich- but its lovely too

CYRUS IT IS NOT PERMITTED TO MENTION BRAND NAMES IN THIS FORUM. PLEASE REVIEW OUR GROUND RULES FOR USE WHICH ARE FOUND AT THE TOP OF THE FRONT PAGE OF THE FORUM.

Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2007 05:59 am by DrDeb

Lisa
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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 10:52 pm
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Maybe you can find a used? I know what you mean about price. I was lucky enough to get a tax return that paid for mine.

DrDeb
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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2007 05:58 am
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Dear Melz -- A major problem with both you and Cyrus is that you do not understand the PRINCIPLES of saddle design and fitting.

Once you learn the principles of fit, then you will be able to solve all these questions yourself. You will not need a "professional saddle fitter", 99% of which are merely employees of some saddle company or other with a vested interest in selling you their type or brand of saddle. What I wish for you instead is that you should become totally independent of any commercial company, completely able to select from what is available and from that selection, create good and workable fit yourself, on your own horses, without anyone else's assistance.

Shy of this, you will continue to be victimized by sales people, and you will remain weak and always in a quandary as to what factors may be causing the wide variety of problems that you complain of. I am not the least bit interested, really, in hearing about peoples' problems -- what I am interested in is seeing people learn how to solve all the problems that come up for them.

Should you be interested in this approach, I would appreciate it if you would do as has been suggested here, and as I suggest repeatedly to every clinic I teach "live", that you go and purchase Dave Genadek's "About Saddle Fit" videotape. This is a one hour, professional production which Mr. Genadek makes available to you at cost. You will pay a mere $25USD plus postage to wherever you live.

When you get the tape, view it several times until what Dave is saying sinks in. Realize that the "good" example in the tape is always Dave's product, but he never says so on the tape -- in fact, he never even names his own company, nor does he put an advertisement or an address on the tape. This is how I like to see our people do -- this is one reason that we recommend 'em  -- there is no self-interest, there is no greed; there is only the desire to empower you by giving you correct information.

Surely, Melz, when you bought into the Arabian breed, you were aware that they often have shorter backs than other types of horse. Often, though not always; you can get the odd Arab whose back is proportionally longer than a Thoroughbred or even, occasionally, a Quarter Horse. But the short length of an Arabian's back, or any other short-backed horse, is almost always advantageous biomechanically. What is scaring you is the MISINFORMATION provided to you by the saddle-fitter, who is either misinformed herself, or self-interested. Specifically, it is a common misunderstanding that the saddle is too long (or that the back is "too short") when, in fact, what is really wrong is that the tree doesn't fit the horse.

This brings us right back to the need for you to learn the principles of saddle design and fitting. I do not want to go into it here, because Dave G.'s tape sets it all forth so very clearly. So please order the videotape, study it, and then if you have further questions you will be welcome to write back here again. -- Dr. Deb

Cyrus44
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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2007 07:33 am
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Thank you Dr DEB.

If you have link to to where I can find / try and buy that also, and point me in the correct directions. As I have looked at many ideas.

I read it all, reflect and keep reading.

So far I have only been able to locate and or listen to a person who came here from America as well,  as the saddle shops just sell me what they have.

I have that DVD, by dr XXXXXXXXXXXX

and a book  by

Joyce harman

 

Presently- I am being helped by  a person who does not sell saddles ( I do avoid saddle shops) but my horse seems so wide, my challenge is trying to find a treed dressage saddle that went wide enough.

I do know my saddle does not fit- and have struggled looking by myself, and trying and buying a few.

I see I may as well go elsewher than here tho, as you obviously  have a rather fond dislike of me and my poor dum nesss

DrDeb
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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 06:56 am
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Dave Genadek's Saddle Fit tape can be found by going to:

http://www.aboutthehorse.com

If the videotape is not specifically posted there, then use the "contact us" button to send an EMail request. -- Dr. Deb

Cyrus44
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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 07:27 am
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THANK YOU- I shall wander through and keep reading....

Today I also found Think  Harmony with Horses, Rays book and am half way through that now, and a Tom Dorrance book, True Unity, which I will read next.

I try and work it out for myself, and I avoid saddle sellers like the plague... 

 

and I thought I had done pretty well to find a better saddle, but my appy just was not  that happy, and I try and always listen to him as he is a good teacher.

I get the fact, that I MUST discover the answers for myself.

I must listen to my horse.

I must become at one with my horse... 

Off to look now:)



 Just  a bit reluctant to spend  on a Video, that may not actually play in Aussie, as I feel we have different players?

Is there any chance of a book or writings to read?

 

Last edited on Tue Dec 4th, 2007 07:34 am by

Tasha
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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 10:00 am
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The USA uses the NTSC format, Australia/NZ uses PAL. If you have a modern TV and video player you could check the manuals to see if they can display and play NTSC tapes. If they don't, there are companies around which provide services for converting tapes from one format to the other.

DrDeb
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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 08:17 pm
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Actually, Tasha and Cyrus, I've had no difficulty at all playing my VHS format videotapes on Australian videotape players. Most modern players, no matter in what country, will play all formats. But, it is wise to check the manual that came with your tape player to be sure. If your own player will not play VHS, it's likely that you can find one that will at a neighbor's or the public library. $25USD is not, frankly, very much money to risk, and I assure you, Dave's videotape should be in every horseman's library and a copy should be in the collection of every local horse and pony club. -- Dr. Deb

Blaze
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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 11:08 pm
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I have a copy of Dave's saddlefitting in DVD format. It's worth it to find a VHS or DVD player that will work.

There are a few current books and video's on saddlefitting. I think they are all by the same author. Don't waste your time or money with these.

Good luck with your hunt for a saddle. After the things I've read on this forum (Dave has posted on here before) and watching his DVD I feel well educated enough to fit my own horse.

In the meantime why don't you try riding bareback?

Melz
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 Posted: Sat Dec 8th, 2007 07:38 pm
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Thank you Deb and others,

I guess after years of people telling me that a short back can be a bad thing, and then having an "expert" give such an opinion, one begins to lose confidence in their own ability to reason!

The video looks fantastic, thanks.

MarionD
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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 02:34 pm
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In my quest to learn more about equine biomechanics and saddle fitting, I have run across a very good article by Dave G. which led me to his website.   His focus seems to be on Western saddles.  Would the saddle fitting concepts apply to all types of saddles, even saddlseat saddles?

I may be wrong, but even though fitters may have their own agenda from a sales perspective, I think all will agree that a saddle can't extend past the 18th rib.  Therefore, wouldn't it be true that a person needing an 18inch seat couldn't put it on a very short-backed horse?  The shorter the back, the less room for a saddle without sitting on the first lumbar vertebrae... true? 

 


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